Best size rubber to stretch and stance an 18x8.5 +30?
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,002
Likes: 12
From: somewhere testing various tires, brakes, and suspensions.
I was going to PM Vivid, but I'll post some here.
Sidewalls deflect as you transition through a turn. DOT testing requires a bead unseat test; how much pressure does the tire withstand before the bead lock breaks and there is a single massive air release.
Stretching a tire that severally decreases the amount of effort needed to unseat the bead.
Youtube: Dodge Charger 2007 Suspension and Sidewall Testing (both for Darwinism and examples of deflection).
I've lost a tire in racing. Trust me. It is not fun. At least I was not in traffic and was able to pull off track at 80 mph into the grass controlled. You will not have full brakes, you will not have steering, you will not have run off on the street.
That is why I put it explicitly as I do. Stretching tires is dangerous and stupid. If you are going out to prove Darwin was right. Just take out yourself. Not everyone else around you.
Sidewalls deflect as you transition through a turn. DOT testing requires a bead unseat test; how much pressure does the tire withstand before the bead lock breaks and there is a single massive air release.
Stretching a tire that severally decreases the amount of effort needed to unseat the bead.
Youtube: Dodge Charger 2007 Suspension and Sidewall Testing (both for Darwinism and examples of deflection).
I've lost a tire in racing. Trust me. It is not fun. At least I was not in traffic and was able to pull off track at 80 mph into the grass controlled. You will not have full brakes, you will not have steering, you will not have run off on the street.
That is why I put it explicitly as I do. Stretching tires is dangerous and stupid. If you are going out to prove Darwin was right. Just take out yourself. Not everyone else around you.
Your current tire width is counter productive to being stanced. 18X8.5. You'll need some spacers to "Stance the car out (aka push the wheels further out). As for stretched tire. Depends on how much stretch you want. See the stance nation thread for reference.
And Vivid its pretty well known that if you want advice on "proper" wheel and tire fitment this is the forum for you. If you are part of this dying fad then you'll get a lot more answers and less flaming in show and shine.
Less flaming comparatively is still a crap ton. Hope the OP has his flame suit on.
And Vivid its pretty well known that if you want advice on "proper" wheel and tire fitment this is the forum for you. If you are part of this dying fad then you'll get a lot more answers and less flaming in show and shine.
Less flaming comparatively is still a crap ton. Hope the OP has his flame suit on.
I was going to PM Vivid, but I'll post some here.
Sidewalls deflect as you transition through a turn. DOT testing requires a bead unseat test; how much pressure does the tire withstand before the bead lock breaks and there is a single massive air release.
Stretching a tire that severally decreases the amount of effort needed to unseat the bead.
Youtube: Dodge Charger 2007 Suspension and Sidewall Testing (both for Darwinism and examples of deflection).
I've lost a tire in racing. Trust me. It is not fun. At least I was not in traffic and was able to pull off track at 80 mph into the grass controlled. You will not have full brakes, you will not have steering, you will not have run off on the street.
That is why I put it explicitly as I do. Stretching tires is dangerous and stupid. If you are going out to prove Darwin was right. Just take out yourself. Not everyone else around you.
Sidewalls deflect as you transition through a turn. DOT testing requires a bead unseat test; how much pressure does the tire withstand before the bead lock breaks and there is a single massive air release.
Stretching a tire that severally decreases the amount of effort needed to unseat the bead.
Youtube: Dodge Charger 2007 Suspension and Sidewall Testing (both for Darwinism and examples of deflection).
I've lost a tire in racing. Trust me. It is not fun. At least I was not in traffic and was able to pull off track at 80 mph into the grass controlled. You will not have full brakes, you will not have steering, you will not have run off on the street.
That is why I put it explicitly as I do. Stretching tires is dangerous and stupid. If you are going out to prove Darwin was right. Just take out yourself. Not everyone else around you.
I'm not going to argue your knowledge or personal experience, because we both know you're knowledgeable in the area. I was just pointing out that your example was pretty extreme. As an aside, did your tire unseat due to impact or just "randomly"?
i did wheels and tires for over 7 years, and while i think stretched and hellaflush is stupid, the bead is not going to pop off unless there tire pressure is very low and/or you hit something. i did a ton of 175/70R14's on 14x8's for lowriders and the only time i had a comeback with a bead off the wheel was when i found a nail in the tire.
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He asked a question and he should be prepared for all types of answers. Don't like it, grow thicker skin or go to another site.
Smike, FJF and a few others are extremley hard on people with questions like this.
This forum is performance oriented. His question is not. Like asking people in the show and shine section what the best track or auto-X setup is.
Vivid maybe I was projecting what I'd like to see. LOL.
I like some of the stuff but some if it is downright stupid. 3 inch poke, rubber bands on wheels to the point you can't take a corner faster then 20 mph. I like all types of automotive trends but there is just some things so extreme it borders or crosses over stupidity.
Smike, FJF and a few others are extremley hard on people with questions like this.
This forum is performance oriented. His question is not. Like asking people in the show and shine section what the best track or auto-X setup is.
Vivid maybe I was projecting what I'd like to see. LOL.
I like some of the stuff but some if it is downright stupid. 3 inch poke, rubber bands on wheels to the point you can't take a corner faster then 20 mph. I like all types of automotive trends but there is just some things so extreme it borders or crosses over stupidity.
He asked a question and he should be prepared for all types of answers. Don't like it, grow thicker skin or go to another site.
Smike, FJF and a few others are extremley hard on people with questions like this.
This forum is performance oriented. His question is not. Like asking people in the show and shine section what the best track or auto-X setup is.
Vivid maybe I was projecting what I'd like to see. LOL.
I like some of the stuff but some if it is downright stupid. 3 inch poke, rubber bands on wheels to the point you can't take a corner faster then 20 mph. I like all types of automotive trends but there is just some things so extreme it borders or crosses over stupidity.
Smike, FJF and a few others are extremley hard on people with questions like this.
This forum is performance oriented. His question is not. Like asking people in the show and shine section what the best track or auto-X setup is.
Vivid maybe I was projecting what I'd like to see. LOL.
I like some of the stuff but some if it is downright stupid. 3 inch poke, rubber bands on wheels to the point you can't take a corner faster then 20 mph. I like all types of automotive trends but there is just some things so extreme it borders or crosses over stupidity.
And in order to be similar to me on poke with a 18x8.5+30 you will need 40mm spacers and 205/40 tires! Probably why you see 18x9.5 at a minimum
Last edited by stpkenton; Dec 9, 2011 at 10:39 PM.
Ironically enough, those of us who've been here for a while try to maintain a technical, performance/driver perspective even in light of the earlier cars becoming inexpensive enough to bastardize in the name of fashion.
My Evo was unsuitably slammed when I purchased it, but I very quickly (and surprisingly) learned it's cornering limits since it had a nasty tendency to understeer. My car is now on stock MR bilsteins, stock springs, and stock wheels (235/45ZR17 tires). It has never handled better and the cornering limits are now eminently better. I really don't see any point in making a car handle worse purely for looks.
Last edited by Sim2k; Dec 13, 2011 at 05:32 AM.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,002
Likes: 12
From: somewhere testing various tires, brakes, and suspensions.
Dying fad? Hardly. Have you been to SEMA the last 2 years? I'm seeing more cars with nearly flush wheels than ever before. I'm not referring to excessive stretch, crazy camber, and slamming the car. Just that I see more cars today with minimal fender-to-wheel face gape than I did 5 years ago.
I'll agree that it is less safe than a non-stretched tire, but I still think your original post is about the same as telling your teenage child that if they drink 1 beer, they're going to become an alcoholic and eventually crash their car into a bus of disabled children and kill everyone in an explosion.
I'm not going to argue your knowledge or personal experience, because we both know you're knowledgeable in the area. I was just pointing out that your example was pretty extreme. As an aside, did your tire unseat due to impact or just "randomly"?
I'll agree that it is less safe than a non-stretched tire, but I still think your original post is about the same as telling your teenage child that if they drink 1 beer, they're going to become an alcoholic and eventually crash their car into a bus of disabled children and kill everyone in an explosion.
I'm not going to argue your knowledge or personal experience, because we both know you're knowledgeable in the area. I was just pointing out that your example was pretty extreme. As an aside, did your tire unseat due to impact or just "randomly"?
Do you see that at NAIAS? Nope.No, its not. Stretching will cause a failure. A 13 y/o drinking one beer will not.
Actually wheel hub exploded. Shredded sidewall in fender. IN SCCA RX there have been unseating failures that have lead to roll overs in rallycrosses. All investigations point to underinflation, lowering unseating resistance. Same principle, make it easier to unseat the bead, it will happen.
My Evo was unsuitably slammed when I purchased it, but I very quickly (and surprisingly) learned it's cornering limits since it had a nasty tendency to over-steer. My car is now on stock MR bilsteins, stock springs, and stock wheels (235/45ZR17 tires). It has never handled better and the cornering limits are now eminently better. I really don't see any point in making a car handle worse purely for looks.
You're generally making a valid point in this thread, but you're going a little overboard. Starting to remind me of FJF.... You gettin' old Smike?
Stretching tires not ideal in regards to safety? Yes. Increased chances of sudden deflation from debeading? Sure. Fiery explosive death and debeading guaranteed? Absolutely, positively not.
Apply the same logic to a different topic....
Increasing horsepower from factory not ideal in regards to safety? Yes. Increased chances of engine failure from increased power? Sure. Fiery engine explosions and catastrophic failure guaranteed? No.
Some stretch is completely fine. Each tire and each wheel will be different and their cannot be a rule of thumb. I have a ton of wheels, one of them is a set of 9.75's on 235 width tires. The bead (if you'd call it that) is no more exposed than any other set of wheels and tires that are in my garage. We're both entitled to our own opinions and you are definitely a very valuable member of the forums and have helped many but yea, a little extreme this time.
Stretching tires not ideal in regards to safety? Yes. Increased chances of sudden deflation from debeading? Sure. Fiery explosive death and debeading guaranteed? Absolutely, positively not.
Apply the same logic to a different topic....
Increasing horsepower from factory not ideal in regards to safety? Yes. Increased chances of engine failure from increased power? Sure. Fiery engine explosions and catastrophic failure guaranteed? No.
Some stretch is completely fine. Each tire and each wheel will be different and their cannot be a rule of thumb. I have a ton of wheels, one of them is a set of 9.75's on 235 width tires. The bead (if you'd call it that) is no more exposed than any other set of wheels and tires that are in my garage. We're both entitled to our own opinions and you are definitely a very valuable member of the forums and have helped many but yea, a little extreme this time.
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,002
Likes: 12
From: somewhere testing various tires, brakes, and suspensions.
There is no overboard to safety of yourself of others around you.
And in your logic - engines exploding does happen.
You don't get what the bead is doing at the rim. I am traveling for the next few weeks. I'll hand draw some cross sections. And it is not "exposure" it is how the bead is locked into the rim area.
It's not an opinion, its professional in my case.
And in your logic - engines exploding does happen.
You don't get what the bead is doing at the rim. I am traveling for the next few weeks. I'll hand draw some cross sections. And it is not "exposure" it is how the bead is locked into the rim area.
It's not an opinion, its professional in my case.
