Please HELP!... :-(
Dec 12, 2001, 09:12 AM
#16
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Claudius
Sorry, I meant the sports ECU that controls the ACD! As mentioned by SuperLancer, it appaers that on a 7 it makes the AYC behave a lot better. I don't think it is available for the 6. I finally tried a 6 with the AYC and it seems to me to be very crude compared with the 7. I can now understand why you hate it so much. If the new ECU does everything that SuperLancer claims, it will save me a lot of money as it only costs £380. I hate to think how much the Cusco diff would cost.
If it does work, thats lots more money to be spent on.........now, let me think - brakes, cams, head, shocks, etc.
Surely Julian should be awake by now. He obviously hasn't got his priorities right. If he had his email on, he could have been awaken by alerts all night
Sorry, I meant the sports ECU that controls the ACD! As mentioned by SuperLancer, it appaers that on a 7 it makes the AYC behave a lot better. I don't think it is available for the 6. I finally tried a 6 with the AYC and it seems to me to be very crude compared with the 7. I can now understand why you hate it so much. If the new ECU does everything that SuperLancer claims, it will save me a lot of money as it only costs £380. I hate to think how much the Cusco diff would cost.
If it does work, thats lots more money to be spent on.........now, let me think - brakes, cams, head, shocks, etc.
Surely Julian should be awake by now. He obviously hasn't got his priorities right. If he had his email on, he could have been awaken by alerts all night
Dec 12, 2001, 09:26 AM
#17
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Yep, the diffs look the business, although the suspension is the first thing that should be upgraded, especially the dampers!! The standard ones are very poor and on a par with almost any production car. Once you have the right suspension you can REALLY enjoy the bad function of the driving aids, meaning that you really feel that the car can take a lot more than the AYC lets you do. As far as the video it has to be remembered that it's a promotional video and I don't think they wanted to have their diffs look bad. Not saying they aren't good, but I don't think it's the diffs alone which made all that difference.
Dec 12, 2001, 11:19 AM
#18
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Thread Starter
Okay,
So you can better advise me, I use the car only for tarmac track use. Unfortunately it is not street legal here in PR, so I can't drive it on the street. Also, my current spring rates are way harder at the rear shocks than the fronts, something like 600lb/in rears and 300lb/in fronts. I'm not sure of those numbers but I'll check and let you know. I have disconnected the front sway bar. Right now the car, as I turn into a curve over-steers but as soon as I accelerate it understeers again. I have installed a RalliArt front LSD, and the rear diff is supposed to have an LSD from the factory, although when the car is on a lift and I turn one tire the tire on the other side turns the other way, instead of the same way as it should with an LSD. I also read of different center diff torque distributions helping understeer, what do you think?
Thanks again for answering so fast....
PS. Remember that when you guys are awake surfing the net, I'm sleeping because of the time zone difference.
Julian Gutierrez
ICQ#: 33355260
So you can better advise me, I use the car only for tarmac track use. Unfortunately it is not street legal here in PR, so I can't drive it on the street. Also, my current spring rates are way harder at the rear shocks than the fronts, something like 600lb/in rears and 300lb/in fronts. I'm not sure of those numbers but I'll check and let you know. I have disconnected the front sway bar. Right now the car, as I turn into a curve over-steers but as soon as I accelerate it understeers again. I have installed a RalliArt front LSD, and the rear diff is supposed to have an LSD from the factory, although when the car is on a lift and I turn one tire the tire on the other side turns the other way, instead of the same way as it should with an LSD. I also read of different center diff torque distributions helping understeer, what do you think?
Thanks again for answering so fast....
PS. Remember that when you guys are awake surfing the net, I'm sleeping because of the time zone difference.
Julian Gutierrez
ICQ#: 33355260
Dec 12, 2001, 11:38 AM
#19
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Thread Starter
By the way, exactly what ohlins suspension is the one you say is best? The 46HRC rally? Is that suspension for tarmac use? Also what would the price be in US dollars? I don't remember how to convert from british pounds to American dollars. Anyway, I sent onlins and proflex emails to see what they recomend.
Thanks,
Julian Gutierrez
Thanks,
Julian Gutierrez
Dec 12, 2001, 03:04 PM
#20
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Don't know about Öhlins specs and your car seems to do exactly the opposite of all the Evos I've heard of!! Usually the Evo understeers into the corner and oversteers on throttle. What Evo do you have exactly? Your settings with very hard springs in the back must have something to do with it and why did you disconnect the sway bar?!? I assume that's what we call the anti-roll bar here in Europe. Your car has very un-evolike dynamics, I'm very interested in what you've done exactly cause you seem to have reversed the handling of an Evo in corners.
Dec 12, 2001, 04:41 PM
#21
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In addition to Michaelk's questions, do you have any strut braces and what camber settings are you running? Have you upgraded any of the suspension bushes? What is the reason you ended up with the spring rates you have? Was this a case of trial and error or is this what you were sold? Sorry for so many questions but like Michael, I am really interested in what is going on with your car.
Dec 12, 2001, 04:57 PM
#22
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Julian
That suspension setup is bull****. The wrong way around. With ROAD tires (eg PZero), I use 70kg front and 60 rear. With semi slicks now, I use 80 front and 70 rear. This spring rate is so hard it understeers on wet surface, you have to throw it in.
The front LSD I have was a very good mod, it doesnt understeer until I go 50mph anymore (well, you know...) Ralliart 1,5 way.
If you use semi slicks or slicks, try using these spring rates. I use my car for hard back road use, the springs and suspensions have to take small jumps etc. I'm sure that's hard enough for tarmac. Although my local rallye team use 120 in the front
, but then again they have slicks (last about 25 miles) and the suspensions you can see on my car (custom Öhlins). That car has just NO roll. That is undriveable on the open road, but not softer springs.
That suspension setup is bull****. The wrong way around. With ROAD tires (eg PZero), I use 70kg front and 60 rear. With semi slicks now, I use 80 front and 70 rear. This spring rate is so hard it understeers on wet surface, you have to throw it in.
The front LSD I have was a very good mod, it doesnt understeer until I go 50mph anymore (well, you know...) Ralliart 1,5 way.
If you use semi slicks or slicks, try using these spring rates. I use my car for hard back road use, the springs and suspensions have to take small jumps etc. I'm sure that's hard enough for tarmac. Although my local rallye team use 120 in the front
, but then again they have slicks (last about 25 miles) and the suspensions you can see on my car (custom Öhlins). That car has just NO roll. That is undriveable on the open road, but not softer springs.
Dec 12, 2001, 10:10 PM
#23
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Okay let me explain everything I have done to the suspension.
I replaced all the bushings with RalliArt stiffer bushings. I replaced the stock suspension with the LEDA coil-overs. I really don't remember the spring rates, I am sure the rears are stiffer than the fronts but not the numbers. I'll check this weekend when I go home from college. I race with DOT approved soft-compound tires. Either Hoosiers or Kumho victoracers. Hoosiers have 0 tread wear, and kumhos have 40. I have installed a fron RalliArt LSD, HKS front camber plates. Front strut tower brace reinforced with the fire wall, rear strut tower brace. There is a place here in PR where they can get me the HKS coil-over suspension, but I noticed none of you recommended it, any thoughts on it?
keep helping, and we will fix this problem!!.. thank you very much!!...
Julian Gutierrez
I replaced all the bushings with RalliArt stiffer bushings. I replaced the stock suspension with the LEDA coil-overs. I really don't remember the spring rates, I am sure the rears are stiffer than the fronts but not the numbers. I'll check this weekend when I go home from college. I race with DOT approved soft-compound tires. Either Hoosiers or Kumho victoracers. Hoosiers have 0 tread wear, and kumhos have 40. I have installed a fron RalliArt LSD, HKS front camber plates. Front strut tower brace reinforced with the fire wall, rear strut tower brace. There is a place here in PR where they can get me the HKS coil-over suspension, but I noticed none of you recommended it, any thoughts on it?
keep helping, and we will fix this problem!!.. thank you very much!!...
Julian Gutierrez
Dec 12, 2001, 10:16 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
I was running almost 4 degrees of camber up front and 2 in the rear. For my last race I took that down to 2.5 degrees up front and 1.5 in the rear. The spring rates that came with the car were different than what I'm running now. A was adviced by the people that work on an evo6.5 in ths SCCA prorally series, in the US, to change to stiffer settings in the rear and softer fronts. This has me really frutrated. And my car came with the weird handeling from the factory. I raced it first with the original suspension, only fitting the sticky tires and it was dangerous and scary. Too hard to control. Then with the LEDAS it improved but kept understeering. Next year my category will be very competitve so I need to get this sorted out. Thanks for your advice guys, keep it up.
Julian Gutierrez
Julian Gutierrez
Dec 13, 2001, 02:30 AM
#25
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Hi!
I use gr.n proflex on the evo v rs, with 57kg springs front and rear 48kg.
The gr.n suspensions are completely adjustable so you have to try a lot of different settings that can change reactions.
I have tryed Claudius evo with the ohlins and they are really good!
I don't know the tyres u are using but you should try some bridgestones semi slicks or yokohama a032r, and reconnect the sway bar!!!
The settings also change a lot, Try 2.5 each side for the front and 1.0 at rear each side and maybe you can also try to toe out a little bit the rear wheels.
For the suspension you can buy some gr.n proflex at around 4000usd
or gr.n ohlins at 7000usd.
The hks should not be bad, but I don't know if they are single tube or bi tube, if they are bi tube don't buy them, DMS are better.
I use gr.n proflex on the evo v rs, with 57kg springs front and rear 48kg.
The gr.n suspensions are completely adjustable so you have to try a lot of different settings that can change reactions.
I have tryed Claudius evo with the ohlins and they are really good!
I don't know the tyres u are using but you should try some bridgestones semi slicks or yokohama a032r, and reconnect the sway bar!!!
The settings also change a lot, Try 2.5 each side for the front and 1.0 at rear each side and maybe you can also try to toe out a little bit the rear wheels.
For the suspension you can buy some gr.n proflex at around 4000usd
or gr.n ohlins at 7000usd.
The hks should not be bad, but I don't know if they are single tube or bi tube, if they are bi tube don't buy them, DMS are better.
Dec 13, 2001, 02:43 AM
#26
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Julian
I have no idea why that guy told you to get harder springs in the back, but dont listen to him. Never heard that much BS.
HKS are twin tube dampers, therefore BS. For hard use anyway.
Go for Öhlins, Proflex or Dynamic Suspensions, monotube design with separate gas containers. (have you seen I sell some, pre-set-up!?)
Did you read the FAQ about suspensions??
What is toe out in the front / back of your car?
I have no idea why that guy told you to get harder springs in the back, but dont listen to him. Never heard that much BS.
HKS are twin tube dampers, therefore BS. For hard use anyway.
Go for Öhlins, Proflex or Dynamic Suspensions, monotube design with separate gas containers. (have you seen I sell some, pre-set-up!?)
Did you read the FAQ about suspensions??
What is toe out in the front / back of your car?
Dec 13, 2001, 05:29 PM
#27
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
I am running my front alignment at 1/16 of an inch toe out at each side for 1/8 of an inch total. Remember here we measure in inches. The rear I run at 1/16 of an inch toe in at each side, making 1/8 of an inch total. At my last race I was suggested to run toe out at the back, but taht was after the race, so next time I go to practice I'll try that. The tires I run, kumhos anb hoosiers are softer than those yokohamas. I will speak with my father, who manages the team and the sponsor money, to see which suspension he believes is best, for the price.
Claudius, could you send me pictures of the suspension setup you have for sale? Along with pricing, in USD if posible.
Maxi, thanks for your suggestions.
Julian Gutierrez
Claudius, could you send me pictures of the suspension setup you have for sale? Along with pricing, in USD if posible.
Maxi, thanks for your suggestions.
Julian Gutierrez
Dec 14, 2001, 06:58 PM
#28
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If you run toe out in the back on a correct suspension setup, the car will oversteer like hell. If the car understeers too much, it could be a temporary solution AT FIRST SIGHT, but remember your spring rates.
Let me explain what I think of your suspensions.
You have relatively soft springs in the back, and relatively hard springs in the back. So
1) when going into a curve, the soft front gets in immediately but the back spring, too hard, doesnt "work" correctly, the car becomes unstable in the back.
2) once you've got the back back and accelerate, it "pushes" the front to the outside since it has not enough spring rate to work with.
Try driving a car with competition dampers in the back and OEM front!
It will understeer just like yours.
Now that does of course not mean that the bump and rebound on your Evo are set up correctly. What settings are you using at the moment?
Let me explain what I think of your suspensions.
You have relatively soft springs in the back, and relatively hard springs in the back. So
1) when going into a curve, the soft front gets in immediately but the back spring, too hard, doesnt "work" correctly, the car becomes unstable in the back.
2) once you've got the back back and accelerate, it "pushes" the front to the outside since it has not enough spring rate to work with.
Try driving a car with competition dampers in the back and OEM front!
It will understeer just like yours.Now that does of course not mean that the bump and rebound on your Evo are set up correctly. What settings are you using at the moment?
Dec 15, 2001, 04:10 PM
#29
Evolving Member
Thread Starter
Claudius,
It seems I have been tuning my suspension all wrong. I was told that running my suspension harder in the back would cause the car to shift more of its weight to the rear wheels therefore improving the handeling of a nose heavy car. It looks like this isn't true. When I replace my LEDA suspension, of which I have already damaged two front struts, I will try your suggestions with my new setup. It seems the LEDAs are only for street use. Anyway, I still don't know what brand of suspension I will purchase, I need a brand where I can get customer-support for the setup.
Thank you very much,
Julian Gutierrez
It seems I have been tuning my suspension all wrong. I was told that running my suspension harder in the back would cause the car to shift more of its weight to the rear wheels therefore improving the handeling of a nose heavy car. It looks like this isn't true. When I replace my LEDA suspension, of which I have already damaged two front struts, I will try your suggestions with my new setup. It seems the LEDAs are only for street use. Anyway, I still don't know what brand of suspension I will purchase, I need a brand where I can get customer-support for the setup.
Thank you very much,
Julian Gutierrez
Dec 15, 2001, 07:16 PM
#30
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Posts: n/a
Julian
On line 4 of my previous message, I meant to say "You have relatively soft springs in the FRONT" obviously. Sorry about the confusion.
To get a car heavier in the back, you need to LOWER it in the back, not harden it. You should try 340mm height in the back and 370-375mm in the front. But those spring rates are wrong, and the suspensions are not of the highest quality either.
Finally, you will not get support for setup from Öhlins or Proflex or Dynamic or any other manufacturer. They can however build suspensions to specifications, but the problem is you dont know them. This is used for people who race say on gravel, ice, tarmec etc and know what damper lengths, bump and rebound ranges and spring rates they need.
On line 4 of my previous message, I meant to say "You have relatively soft springs in the FRONT" obviously. Sorry about the confusion.
To get a car heavier in the back, you need to LOWER it in the back, not harden it. You should try 340mm height in the back and 370-375mm in the front. But those spring rates are wrong, and the suspensions are not of the highest quality either.
Finally, you will not get support for setup from Öhlins or Proflex or Dynamic or any other manufacturer. They can however build suspensions to specifications, but the problem is you dont know them. This is used for people who race say on gravel, ice, tarmec etc and know what damper lengths, bump and rebound ranges and spring rates they need.
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