$1500 & $2500 coilovers
Nov 14, 2005, 11:22 AM
#46
Evolved Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Del Monte Beach, Monterey, CA
Posts: 1,252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I cant really agree with what adam said at all. I have ridden in a car with a muellerized suspension and it was hands down incredible!.. on the other hand, my autox buddy has the zeals (works tuned). With the zeals on I was faster then he was on my stock struts with hotchks springs, but other suspension goodies.. he swap the zeals out for a yet to be named cheap coilover setup that his freind is importing.. which he paid $600 for (his cost) and now I cannot get within 5 seconds of his time... everything else was unchanged. I can post up the before and after results and the dramatic change the car went through if its any consulation. He told me flat out the care performs better with the cheap suspension over the zeals.. not that the zeals dont ride super nice.. but there are cheap options for autox that perform well. I would take the muellerized suspension after getting a nice ride in that car though providing I could afford it.
Originally Posted by hagakure
Adam,
drive an evo with Muellerized buddy clubs. You will be convinced on the performance end, if not the longevity end. Best 2300.00 you can possibly spend on the evo.
Percy
drive an evo with Muellerized buddy clubs. You will be convinced on the performance end, if not the longevity end. Best 2300.00 you can possibly spend on the evo.
Percy
Last edited by bdking57; Nov 14, 2005 at 11:26 AM.
Nov 14, 2005, 12:15 PM
#47
Evolving Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Springfield, MO
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PIC Performance
$1500+? Chances are you're paying for a name.
Ask the manufacturer to show you the car that they used for track testing, or ask for the dyno graphs for the dampers, or why they chose the spring rates that they did. What type of oil did they use for the damper, and how resistant is it to aeration, and how its viscocity holds up to heat of operation? What sort of seals do they use, and how well do those seals resist oil and heat? Will track use wear them out prematurely? If so, are they warrantied against track use? If not, why not? Aren't these performance, race-derived coilovers you are paying $1500 for? Where do their materials come from? The steel for the springs, the steel for the shock body, the aluminum for the mounts. And where are they assembled? Where *is* the final assembly location? How are the spring rates measured? 1" of compression? Fully extended? Why offer 20 levels of adjustable damping, when only 8 show any noticeable difference in seperation? How do you know what damping level you are at? Are there clicks? If so, will every click give you the same level of adjustment? And will each of the dampers have the same number of clicks (you'd be surprised)?
Many questions to ask.
edit: I should add, these are questions you'd want to ask when purchasing any price coilover, not just expensive ones.
Ask the manufacturer to show you the car that they used for track testing, or ask for the dyno graphs for the dampers, or why they chose the spring rates that they did. What type of oil did they use for the damper, and how resistant is it to aeration, and how its viscocity holds up to heat of operation? What sort of seals do they use, and how well do those seals resist oil and heat? Will track use wear them out prematurely? If so, are they warrantied against track use? If not, why not? Aren't these performance, race-derived coilovers you are paying $1500 for? Where do their materials come from? The steel for the springs, the steel for the shock body, the aluminum for the mounts. And where are they assembled? Where *is* the final assembly location? How are the spring rates measured? 1" of compression? Fully extended? Why offer 20 levels of adjustable damping, when only 8 show any noticeable difference in seperation? How do you know what damping level you are at? Are there clicks? If so, will every click give you the same level of adjustment? And will each of the dampers have the same number of clicks (you'd be surprised)?
Many questions to ask.
edit: I should add, these are questions you'd want to ask when purchasing any price coilover, not just expensive ones.
Nov 14, 2005, 07:03 PM
#48
Evolving Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Austin
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PIC Performance
At this point we don't look at initial buyers and users as guinea pigs at all, in that testing has already been performed, and the performance has been deemed more than good enough for them to be released for public use.
I can understand your concern though, coming from the consumer's side, in that the only people that have used them so far are PIC. In which case, I provide to you with as close to solid numbers-type proof as I can get (shock dynos), the type of components we use, and our word that this is the best possible coilover that we are able to manufacture and release for the consumer to use on their Evos.
If you can wait, we are working on setting up a long-term evaluation of sorts, which we hope will shed some light on the product and answer questions related to their performance and usability. I understand someone's hesitation to simply take our word for it, along with a few numbers and graphs and pictures though.
I know that price has become a big concern for those shopping for coilovers due to the huge price range that various coilovers are offered in. I'll assure you that our products being more affordable than comparable products has had little effect on their performance relative to others'. Again I can't expect everyone to take the word of a new and small company such as PIC Performance. Yours questions will be answered in time. Feel free to drop me (or us) a line if you have more urgent concerns.
I can understand your concern though, coming from the consumer's side, in that the only people that have used them so far are PIC. In which case, I provide to you with as close to solid numbers-type proof as I can get (shock dynos), the type of components we use, and our word that this is the best possible coilover that we are able to manufacture and release for the consumer to use on their Evos.
If you can wait, we are working on setting up a long-term evaluation of sorts, which we hope will shed some light on the product and answer questions related to their performance and usability. I understand someone's hesitation to simply take our word for it, along with a few numbers and graphs and pictures though.
I know that price has become a big concern for those shopping for coilovers due to the huge price range that various coilovers are offered in. I'll assure you that our products being more affordable than comparable products has had little effect on their performance relative to others'. Again I can't expect everyone to take the word of a new and small company such as PIC Performance. Yours questions will be answered in time. Feel free to drop me (or us) a line if you have more urgent concerns.
Nov 14, 2005, 07:22 PM
#49
Originally Posted by 05SilverEvoVIII
You would not be paying for a name you would be paying for quality and reliability.
Evotino: I understand, and we'll be doing our best within the coming months to get some more information out there so that, come the beginning of next season, buyers have an easier time of making their decisions. I'll be in and around Evolutionm.net from now on.
Nov 15, 2005, 08:47 PM
#51
Evolving Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ripon, Ca
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pic Performance Review Coming....
I have just reached an agreement with the Gentleman at Pic Performance (pronounced "peak") to test their top of the line coilovers, the Select Series P1's. These are 8 way adjustable with various spring rates available. They are available in a lower priced non-adjustable grade as well. These will come either with or without a pillowball mount adjustable camber plate top mount.
These will be arriving about the end of the year with a planned installation sometime in January. I will post before and after pictures and we are planning lot's of regular updates and real world driving impressions. Track duty reviews will be handled by others. Adam at Z1 is in the loop and will perhaps provide some great track evaluation tests and his views and perspectives as a vendor.
I have no affiliation with Pic but have quickly established an excellent working relationship with them and being in the market for coilovers myself we established some parameters that will benefit product development and feedback for the performance oriented drivers that we all are. I have quite a bit of experience with modifying and driving performance cars including most recently an 04 Boxster and a Mini Cooper S. (7 Posches in all) and many other sports cars over the years.
I hope to give a middle of the road perspective driving on a variety of roads and conditions. My Evo is an 05 with the stock kyb's and hotchkis springs and hotchkis adj. rear sway bar. While I feel these are the best lowering springs for the kyb struts I am still not completely satisfied with the ride and handling (the stance is perfect though). I look forward to a fair evaluation and long term test of these coilovers. I am optomistic that these pieces will be competitive with others costing up to 2k or more. The truth will be told.
P.S. The Selects with the adj camber pillow ball top mounts will retail for: $1320.00
More soon
Thanks Fletch
These will be arriving about the end of the year with a planned installation sometime in January. I will post before and after pictures and we are planning lot's of regular updates and real world driving impressions. Track duty reviews will be handled by others. Adam at Z1 is in the loop and will perhaps provide some great track evaluation tests and his views and perspectives as a vendor.
I have no affiliation with Pic but have quickly established an excellent working relationship with them and being in the market for coilovers myself we established some parameters that will benefit product development and feedback for the performance oriented drivers that we all are. I have quite a bit of experience with modifying and driving performance cars including most recently an 04 Boxster and a Mini Cooper S. (7 Posches in all) and many other sports cars over the years.
I hope to give a middle of the road perspective driving on a variety of roads and conditions. My Evo is an 05 with the stock kyb's and hotchkis springs and hotchkis adj. rear sway bar. While I feel these are the best lowering springs for the kyb struts I am still not completely satisfied with the ride and handling (the stance is perfect though). I look forward to a fair evaluation and long term test of these coilovers. I am optomistic that these pieces will be competitive with others costing up to 2k or more. The truth will be told.
P.S. The Selects with the adj camber pillow ball top mounts will retail for: $1320.00
More soon
Thanks Fletch
Nov 16, 2005, 12:25 AM
#52
Evolved Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^ ^ Good work that man. Hope it all goes well.
It might be asking a lot, but are you also planning on comparing it aginst anything else? Even if you don't a comparison against stock will be most welcome.
It might be asking a lot, but are you also planning on comparing it aginst anything else? Even if you don't a comparison against stock will be most welcome.
Nov 16, 2005, 04:41 AM
#53
Evolving Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Austin
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by evo-mr
buddy club is the best, same quality as the FLTA's better than flex, with excelent price, what else ?
Nov 16, 2005, 06:05 AM
#54
Account Disabled
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North West
Posts: 188
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Pic Performance, I'm in the market for some new coilovers for my evo. Do have any more info on your pic select series (or what ever your top of the line dampener is) then whats on your website. I need to know whats adjustable, what type of materials are used to make the shock, size of the piston shaft, and service intervals. I also need honest answer if your product will be able to withstand 20 to 30 trackdays a year, 2 tarmac rallies, alot of fast road work, bad use in foul weather.
Nov 16, 2005, 09:53 AM
#55
Evolving Member
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ripon, Ca
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by x838nwy
^ ^ Good work that man. Hope it all goes well.
It might be asking a lot, but are you also planning on comparing it aginst anything else? Even if you don't a comparison against stock will be most welcome.
It might be asking a lot, but are you also planning on comparing it aginst anything else? Even if you don't a comparison against stock will be most welcome.
Nov 16, 2005, 05:04 PM
#56
Account Disabled
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IF YOU MUST get springs, Steer Clear of TEIN's as they not performance orientated and they are simply for looks. Jesus, look at the box on a set of TEIN H-Techs, LUXURY MASTER!!!!!!!!! I had those springs, they were ****, just ****, and I blew two struts on them. The BIGGEST issue with a spring is that they SLAM the nose, just SLAM it, and slightly lower the rear in comparison. The issues is that this completely ruins any balance the Evo once had (60%F 40%R weight distribution btw) and now you slam the nose 2 inches on springs that are BARELY stiffer then stock.
What does this mean? Your nose, HEAVY Nose is sitting 2inchs lower and now has a compressed strut, you now have 2 inches LESS travel and the spring which is now holding more weight and NOT strong enough, this makes handling feel like I can only describe as a Water bed, it was that bad, and yes after 5 alignments.
Coilovers work great as they are MUCH stronger and they properly match the strut to the spring. Mine are 11K in the front, 9K in the rear which is stiff but also allows me to handle better then anything on the road. I also incorporated a rear Sway bar which makes the handling more neutral and gets rid of understeer perfectly.
I like D2 Racing Sports, they are their own Coilover Company and make their own springs, Tein buys them, they also come with camber plates and are 36-way adjustable and just over $1,000 and they will make your ride HANDLE.
Springs? If you absolutely HAVE TOO, then go with the Following.
Eibach 1 Inch drop a piece and are strong enough to support the weight.
Rallyart springs, .5 inch F-R and literally twice as strong as stock, they will actually increase handling.
I have also heard good things on Tunabie’s but I have no Idea.
What does this mean? Your nose, HEAVY Nose is sitting 2inchs lower and now has a compressed strut, you now have 2 inches LESS travel and the spring which is now holding more weight and NOT strong enough, this makes handling feel like I can only describe as a Water bed, it was that bad, and yes after 5 alignments.
Coilovers work great as they are MUCH stronger and they properly match the strut to the spring. Mine are 11K in the front, 9K in the rear which is stiff but also allows me to handle better then anything on the road. I also incorporated a rear Sway bar which makes the handling more neutral and gets rid of understeer perfectly.
I like D2 Racing Sports, they are their own Coilover Company and make their own springs, Tein buys them, they also come with camber plates and are 36-way adjustable and just over $1,000 and they will make your ride HANDLE.
Springs? If you absolutely HAVE TOO, then go with the Following.
Eibach 1 Inch drop a piece and are strong enough to support the weight.
Rallyart springs, .5 inch F-R and literally twice as strong as stock, they will actually increase handling.
I have also heard good things on Tunabie’s but I have no Idea.
Nov 19, 2005, 09:26 PM
#57
699 actually
Originally Posted by chrisw
If you want the apearance without the cost, try the omni power coilovers. They are non-adjustable (except for right height) which makes them pretty cheap, around $800 a set.
Nov 20, 2005, 09:58 AM
#58
Newbie
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ya im sorry but i would stay away from omnipower, honda crap.... to many horror stories
80k civic drag car slams into wall destorying bc the omnipower shock broke in half from cheap structure... i would rather chance some megan racing coilovers than some omni power crap
(he can build one hell of a honda motor, but hell his other **** sucks)
80k civic drag car slams into wall destorying bc the omnipower shock broke in half from cheap structure... i would rather chance some megan racing coilovers than some omni power crap
(he can build one hell of a honda motor, but hell his other **** sucks)
Nov 21, 2005, 07:54 AM
#59
Evolved Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The only "hands on" I've had with Omnipower hasn't been very encouraging - a friend bought a set and even after alot of tuning they still blow. The ride is so bad a female co-worker of his described it as "like being inside a butter churn" - that earned it the nickname "the churn"...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
guyver858
Evo Tires / Wheels / Brakes / Suspension
8
Jul 26, 2006 11:07 PM
