:::subscribes:::

I've been thinking really hard about coilovers as well..

 

Your thinking is correct about progressive. This curve does less on the track to resist chassis dive and roll in the lower velocity range, but tightens up over high speed anomalies. However, it can be an advantage on the street to make the low speed stuff more bearable. But the results depend on the whole of your setup, not just the graph. There are other ways, of course, to control dive and roll on the track...

 

yea definately, i mean, i am not going to be just doing coilovers, this car is going to be all about suspension. but its gotta be comfortable as well. i talked at length today with Mark at DMS and i learned allot about the DMS's and suspension tuning in general. One of my big issues was the seperate ride height / preload adjustments, but there are recommended ride height drops for a shock with dependent preload adjustment, and the DMS's along with the others sound like they recommend what im wanting (~1-1.5 inch drop max). the seperate preload/height is something more for keeping acceptable travel/preload when you drop your car a ****-ton. also, i think Mark said it best about going overboard on suspension setups. referring to DMS setups he said basically: if you drive the car to the track, go with the 40mm or something simmilar, if you trailer it, go with the 50mm. i have emailed a few other suspension gurus ont he board here but none have gotten back to me yet... so i will see what they can add hopefully

 

You are definitely on the right track [no pun intended ]...research, research. Also, many people make the mistake of lowering the car past the proper geometry without making hard corrections with the right parts and analyzing the consequences.

I hear ya on separate adjustments. It is very handy to have a way to change height or corner weight without changing spring preload and piston stroke. You have to be very careful about changing the motion range of the shock out of it's intended service range to avoid premature failure.

Speaking of failure. Another factor to consider is the service interval and cost. Can the shocks be serviced locally? How often? Cost? How long will your car sit in the garage on stands? Important questions.

Best of luck to you on the setup!

 

Good points EZ, and something for all potential coil over buyers to consider.

 

Mark, those curves are not for tarmac, that is a set-up for gravel/snow, plain and simple. There is no low speed dampening and the car would wallow all over the place on a road course or even on the road. Rally cars on slippery surfaces don't want low speed dampening so they transfer as much weight as possible, on pavement the opposite is true. I hope you just posted up the wrong ones, because those do not belong on a road car of any type.

 

Did you even read the post? We are talking about 40mm systems, not gravel setups.
It is a typical 40mm system, and the lowspeed on it is what gives it the superior control for turn in, corrections, and high speed corners. This setup is not a race setup, I never claimed it to be. It is a street shock for weekend warriors to speak.

It is not a gravel shock, it is not a snow shock, it is not even a 50mm shock. Take a few more minutes and read my previous post chonohunter.
-mark

 

I did not mean to imply that the DMS 40s were rally spec hardware, I was saying that the lack of low speed dampening is for rally applications.

The dampening rates are absolutely not right for a tarmac car. You need low speed dampening for road use and track use. I said the dampening was for gravel/snow...it is.

You state "Superior control":

" for turn in"

"Corrections" you'll be doing a lot of that as the car wallows all over the place.

"high speed corners" with your door handles scraping the road

If it is was so "superior" wouldn't it be on all you shocks (and ours too), Why don't you re-valve them for road use instead of spreading misinformation. I'm not trying to be mean but you're just miles off here. I agree that stock has too much low speed but yours has way too little.

Do you care to disagree on these points?

 

wha about the Tein EDFCs?

 

c'mon now you cannot be serious. first off, those curves are damper only, no spring. second, theyre progressive (duh). third, theyre proven to work. i know you know your stuff as well, but its not needed to downtalk anyone elses product. how do you even get customers? now, i can see how you think the car would "wallow" but in a race situation your not starting at very low dampening speeds, corrections and direction changes happen rapidly, and in no way through all of the reading, research ect ive done does your comment about "scraping doorhandles" make much sense. sure youll get a bit more body roll, but its a system for the STREET. also, i think you are hyping struts a bit much, id MUCH prefer an entire system that is proven, ie struts, anti-roll bars, ect over a "wonder coilover". a fully matched system will handle better, ride better, and be easier to drive. how about you explain you reasoning rather than acting like everyone else from boulder... i swear some times man...so, im listening.

 

Thanks fatheroftheEVO, ge has been blasting me on some other forums as well because we do not setup or shocks the same way. Trouble is CHRONOHUNTER is not employed by OHLINS and knows better, how many people does he have to pass through to get the product now? 3, 4 maybe?

Anyways, different setups for different drivers. Not everyone is going to use the same "mentality" to set up cars. As little as 5 or 7 years ago, it was common place (over 80%) of tarmac cars were running digressive valving with spring rates over 1400lbs per wheel (this is a gross average, but it gets the point across that the rates were very high), does it mean it did not work? No, but it means it was different. Different is not always wrong or not going to work. If our curves are so bad, how come there are no less podium finishes on DMS then OHLINS in North America? Actually I would like to see some numbers pertaining to this as I actually do not know how many DMS or OHLINS customers are winning now - a -days.

In 2004 and 2005 pro rally in north america, over 55% of all stage wins were on DMS, granted our drivers kicked but, but the number is there the same.

In USTCC, what are the top 5 cars running as of the A1 GP?

We are growing our reputation for tarmac applications, next year we hope to see the front runners in Grand-Am as well as World Challenge using our products as well. These are racing series were alligances are strong, and manufactures have been around for a lot longer than we have (like OHLINS) are dominant.

Anyways, I am happy with our low speed dampening, apparently our customers enjoy it as well, I will get the chart for the actual EVO 50mm NT setup for you to pick apart as well guys!

-mark

 

if you have the cash to blow, why don't you just spend them on a set of zeal coils?

 

Thank you, Mark

 

I am completely serious and where are they "proven to work"???

All of the "body control" dampening (pitch and roll) no matter how fast and hard you are driving is all considered LOW SPEED as far as the valving is concerned. This set-up will wallow...

Read my posts (just do a search for Chronohunter) and you will quickly get a feel about where I am coming from, I have laid it out many times before. You do need to read some more because all I talk about is how Vishnu sells the full system.

This is not about Vishnu vs. DMS, this is about what is what is accepted as correct and what DMS is doing. Why do you think John Muller from RRE jumped in (on another thread) backing me up? Technically he is a competitor of Vishnu but he knows what going on in the suspension world, he's been doing all this for a long time...

Find me a reputable road race winning damper company or team who uses similar valving to what Mark posted on the DMS 40s. While your searching find me a good handling OEM car (Porsche/BMW/Ferrari etc.) that uses similar valving to those curves.

BTW I say all of this to inform rather than misinform. I have had to chase DSM Mark and Robi all over these forums because of the misinformation they are spreading to sell DMSs. They are a rally company trying to get into road racing with a limited R&D budget so instead of making proper Road/Tarmac spec valving they are pushing their rally valving on an unassuming public and coming up with a lines of propaganda to support it all.

Mark is a nice guy and he is very polite ( ), I'm sure Mark believes what he is saying is true (at least I hope). That does not mean DMSs are are all he says they are cracked up to be...

I am not attacking DMS Mark, I am disputing his companies philosophy on valving and I have the rest of the performance/racing shock world backing be up FWIW

 

Please do, and I don't expect them to look like the 40s. If they look real (easy to tell if it's a real graph or not) and look reasonable for road/track use, well... nothing would make me happier.

If some one has 40s in the Denver area I would love to drive them and let them drive my car as well...