How much camber? Suspension Guru(s) Needed
Jun 9, 2003, 02:15 AM
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How much camber? Suspension Guru(s) Needed
Hi,
Looking for a street/track alignment. I just got my EVO setup to the stock specs. It was a mess from the factory and had almost everything out of whack. The wheel was like 1 inch to the left and the toe total in the rear was .41. The camber on all four corners was all over the place. Anyway I got it pretty close to the factory specs but I do have 0 toe front and rear. Figured that would help right off the bat. What do you guys suggest as a baseline setup for camber? I was thinking 1.25 in the front and 1.0 in the rear. I want the least understeer possible and descent tire wear on the street. (You know the miserable time we spend between track days.) Is 1.5 too much for the street or 1.25 a better compromise?
FYI, this is my first car that is not RWD so I’m a little unsure of where all the understeer comes from. Does a thicker rear swaybar help enough or is it the LSD in the front? (Or maybe a little of both?)
Looking for a street/track alignment. I just got my EVO setup to the stock specs. It was a mess from the factory and had almost everything out of whack. The wheel was like 1 inch to the left and the toe total in the rear was .41. The camber on all four corners was all over the place. Anyway I got it pretty close to the factory specs but I do have 0 toe front and rear. Figured that would help right off the bat. What do you guys suggest as a baseline setup for camber? I was thinking 1.25 in the front and 1.0 in the rear. I want the least understeer possible and descent tire wear on the street. (You know the miserable time we spend between track days.) Is 1.5 too much for the street or 1.25 a better compromise?
FYI, this is my first car that is not RWD so I’m a little unsure of where all the understeer comes from. Does a thicker rear swaybar help enough or is it the LSD in the front? (Or maybe a little of both?)
Jun 9, 2003, 02:56 PM
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Claudius,
Yeah but at 1.5 will they last at least 8K-10K miles ( approx. 13K-16K KM)? That was about average for me on S03s on my old car, I don't have a clue what A046s will wears like on my EVO.
Is the Cusco 23mm a good choice? What brand and size swaybar to you run?
So are front LSD the "bee's knees" or what?
Yeah but at 1.5 will they last at least 8K-10K miles ( approx. 13K-16K KM)? That was about average for me on S03s on my old car, I don't have a clue what A046s will wears like on my EVO.
Is the Cusco 23mm a good choice? What brand and size swaybar to you run?
So are front LSD the "bee's knees" or what?
Last edited by EVO Rosso; Jun 9, 2003 at 02:58 PM.
Jun 9, 2003, 03:08 PM
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The front diff is open, not LS.
I rotated my tires this weekend and took some measurements of tread depth across the tire. The wear actually seems pretty good, if not biased more towards the outside of the tire, even with a lot of front camber and -1.1 in the rear.
Decreasing the rear camber would make the rear bite less in a corner, right? If that is true then backing the rear camber out to about -0.5 would loosen the rear up a little bit, giving a bit more oversteer.
I'm guessing I'll have to replace my tires at about 8k-9k miles at this rate... maybe sooner if I AutoX this weekend and next weekend too.
I rotated my tires this weekend and took some measurements of tread depth across the tire. The wear actually seems pretty good, if not biased more towards the outside of the tire, even with a lot of front camber and -1.1 in the rear.
Decreasing the rear camber would make the rear bite less in a corner, right? If that is true then backing the rear camber out to about -0.5 would loosen the rear up a little bit, giving a bit more oversteer.
I'm guessing I'll have to replace my tires at about 8k-9k miles at this rate... maybe sooner if I AutoX this weekend and next weekend too.
Jun 9, 2003, 03:24 PM
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It really depends what type of "normal" driving you do! I can get very even wear out of 2+ degrees (front only) because of the windy nature of my roads. Austin has a lot of good roads around it so you may be able to use the extra camber. On the other hand if you a doing a long commute on the highway then you might get some inside wear. Defintely take the camber out of the rear (as Claudius suggested), that is where the inside wear will take place (and cause understeer) IMO
Jun 9, 2003, 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by EVO Rosso
Yeah but at 1.5 will they last at least 8K-10K miles ( approx. 13K-16K KM)?
Yeah but at 1.5 will they last at least 8K-10K miles ( approx. 13K-16K KM)?
If you go mainly straight on highways, it may not be the best idea to put over 1 deg camber, especially since camber slightly reduces contact patch and thus increases braking distance (at this level of camber, this is more theoretical than effictive, though).
I would expect the A046 to last about 5,000 - 6,000 fast road miles maximum, again, depending on how you drive. You could kill them in an afternoon on a track, or make them last 10,000, possibly more with slow highway driving.
Originally posted by EVO Rosso
Is the Cusco 23mm a good choice? What brand and size swaybar to you run?
Is the Cusco 23mm a good choice? What brand and size swaybar to you run?
I am personally running stock bars, working much more on the dampers. I actually like a bit of roll, since I drive mainly on twisty roads, not fast tracks.
Originally posted by EVO Rosso
So are front LSD the "bee's knees" or what?
So are front LSD the "bee's knees" or what?
LOL Seriously: everybody who has gotten a front LSD on his Evo is amazed. 
Jun 9, 2003, 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by iodine23
Decreasing the rear camber would make the rear bite less in a corner, right? If that is true then backing the rear camber out to about -0.5 would loosen the rear up a little bit, giving a bit more oversteer.
Decreasing the rear camber would make the rear bite less in a corner, right? If that is true then backing the rear camber out to about -0.5 would loosen the rear up a little bit, giving a bit more oversteer.
It is a good idea to do this because the car has an understeer tendency in stock form. That's why you increase the camber in the front: to give it more grip. But: even with more camber in the front, it still understeers if you do not change the rear camber, or, as some people do, put more rear camber. If it understeers, then it has not enough grip in the front, or too much in the rear, or both (which is the case here). Hope that makes sense
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Jun 10, 2003, 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by iodine23
The front diff is open, not LS.
The front diff is open, not LS.
I think Claudius has 'straightened' me out. I will do -1.5 front and -0.5 rear camber and keep the 0 toe front and rear. If that doesn't do it I will try I thicker rear swaybar. The LSD is not an option for awhile...
The Cusco rear swaybar is here. Its 3-way adjustable.
chronohunter, the roads in Austin excellent especially to the west of the city. Unfortunately I do have some take some extended roadtrips. Like my trip to Dallas in July for the Texas Dyno Day...
Last edited by EVO Rosso; Jun 10, 2003 at 12:33 AM.
Jun 10, 2003, 12:35 PM
#9
Help, please!!!
The alignment shop just called to tell me that they got the rear set to -0.5 but they could only get -0.7 on the front. Are they doing something wrong? Should I go with -0.7 in front and -0.5 in the rear? Should I go with less in the rear since I got less in the front?
I'm kinda upset... I want my camber.
The alignment shop just called to tell me that they got the rear set to -0.5 but they could only get -0.7 on the front. Are they doing something wrong? Should I go with -0.7 in front and -0.5 in the rear? Should I go with less in the rear since I got less in the front?
I'm kinda upset... I want my camber.
Jun 10, 2003, 12:50 PM
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AutoXer: There is an eccentric bolt in the top hole of the front strut that will let you dial in 1 more degree of camber, just rotate it 180 degrees. See my thread on it here.
The max negative camber most people have been reporting is about -1.6 or -1.7, so your -0.7 with the bolt in the stock orientation sounds about right.
The max negative camber most people have been reporting is about -1.6 or -1.7, so your -0.7 with the bolt in the stock orientation sounds about right.
Perry's Alignment
Jun 14, 2003, 10:51 PM
#15
It is possible to get as much as -2.2 up front on the passenger side. Unfortunately, my shop could only get -1.3 on the drivers side. Not clear why the difference but even on the auto-x course, the car doesn't feel too unbalanced (and watch out in those left hand sweepers!).