Bilstein HD Application For EVO
Bilstein HD
I had a thought, extra crate engine were being sold.
Could these be extra shocks from a Bilstein production run?
Does anybody know what numbers are stamped on real MR Bilstein shocks
Not talking about the Mitsu numbers, but the numbers stamped by Bilstein.
If the numbers match, then we would know the valving setup.
Thanks
Mitsuatb
Could these be extra shocks from a Bilstein production run?
Does anybody know what numbers are stamped on real MR Bilstein shocks
Not talking about the Mitsu numbers, but the numbers stamped by Bilstein.
If the numbers match, then we would know the valving setup.
Thanks
Mitsuatb
I have been studing the pictures of MR Bilstein and comparing them to the HD that I just bought.
Alot fewer stickers, none of the black on yellow stickers you see up high on the MR shocks.
Biggest difference I can see is the lower "U" shaped bracket on the bottom of the rear shocks where it attaches to the control arm.
The rear HD shocks have square ends and the width of the "U" strap is more narrow and the same width all of the way around the "U".
The MR rear shocks have a tapered "U" shape that is thinest near the bolt holes and broadens as it approaches the bottom of the shock.
I would think the HD design is cheaper to make and the MR design might be a little lighter.
The front struts also look different, the HD has welded flat plates that make the connection between the shock and the control arm.
The MR has stamped metal that wraps completely around the shock and is not tabbed / welded on to the body of the shock.
The MR looks lighter and the HD looks cheaper, spring seat area looks the same.
So I am not certain what to think, if you want MR shocks, the HD are not the same thing.
The HD's look well made but are a more universal design.
My goal was improve on the KYB, won't know if I have done that until I install these.
So valving differences seem more likely since the shock body is not the same.
Mitsuatb
Alot fewer stickers, none of the black on yellow stickers you see up high on the MR shocks.
Biggest difference I can see is the lower "U" shaped bracket on the bottom of the rear shocks where it attaches to the control arm.
The rear HD shocks have square ends and the width of the "U" strap is more narrow and the same width all of the way around the "U".
The MR rear shocks have a tapered "U" shape that is thinest near the bolt holes and broadens as it approaches the bottom of the shock.
I would think the HD design is cheaper to make and the MR design might be a little lighter.
The front struts also look different, the HD has welded flat plates that make the connection between the shock and the control arm.
The MR has stamped metal that wraps completely around the shock and is not tabbed / welded on to the body of the shock.
The MR looks lighter and the HD looks cheaper, spring seat area looks the same.
So I am not certain what to think, if you want MR shocks, the HD are not the same thing.
The HD's look well made but are a more universal design.
My goal was improve on the KYB, won't know if I have done that until I install these.
So valving differences seem more likely since the shock body is not the same.
Mitsuatb
Last edited by mitsuatb; Feb 3, 2008 at 09:31 AM.
Thanks for the info
Bilstein HD Problem
I have been getting into the guts of this install.
I have found a major problem.
Bilstein has made the mounting flanges on the front struts too long.
If you put the upper strut / knuckle bolt in the -2 position the mounting flanges hit the outboard edge of the two machine cuts on the knuckle.
This will prevent the installation of the lower strut / knuckle bolt, since the strut will not move to allow installation.
The stock KYB has around 3/8" of clearance in this area. Bilstein could have provided similar clearance, but they left the mounting flanges too long.
I had to grind 0.130" off of the front edges of all 4 mounting flanges. Then the bolts droped right in without a problem. This gave about 1/16" of clearance in the -2 position.
The PSS9 struts might have the same problem, since they use the same mounting flanges.
Now I expect to get a bunch of replys, "Hey Mine fit fine - ect".
I will answer those in advance, how closely did you look at the fit? The struts could be forced on leaving a gap. Not a good practice. So I don't believe that mine is an isolated case.
I guess it is possible that Bilstein messed up on my struts, but everything looked good and they were factory cut pieces.
Sonce they build the OEM struts, I find it hard to believe that they missed by this much, very bad design / mfg, from the leaders in the industry, sad...
If anyone has a pipeline back to Bilstein, they should be informed. Easy to fix with their resources but I wonder how many are out there in this condition.
Note the lower bolt, is an Ingalls 81260 Fast Cam Camber bolt. +/_ 2 degrees aprox $16.00 from sumitracing.
With the upper bolt in -2 and camber bolts, I should be able to get -2 to -4 camber.
The fit issue was not caused by the lower bolt, the stock upper one was the issue.
I will report on the ride once I get this install done.
Warm up your angle grinders.
Mitsuatb
I have found a major problem.
Bilstein has made the mounting flanges on the front struts too long.
If you put the upper strut / knuckle bolt in the -2 position the mounting flanges hit the outboard edge of the two machine cuts on the knuckle.
This will prevent the installation of the lower strut / knuckle bolt, since the strut will not move to allow installation.
The stock KYB has around 3/8" of clearance in this area. Bilstein could have provided similar clearance, but they left the mounting flanges too long.
I had to grind 0.130" off of the front edges of all 4 mounting flanges. Then the bolts droped right in without a problem. This gave about 1/16" of clearance in the -2 position.
The PSS9 struts might have the same problem, since they use the same mounting flanges.
Now I expect to get a bunch of replys, "Hey Mine fit fine - ect".
I will answer those in advance, how closely did you look at the fit? The struts could be forced on leaving a gap. Not a good practice. So I don't believe that mine is an isolated case.
I guess it is possible that Bilstein messed up on my struts, but everything looked good and they were factory cut pieces.
Sonce they build the OEM struts, I find it hard to believe that they missed by this much, very bad design / mfg, from the leaders in the industry, sad...
If anyone has a pipeline back to Bilstein, they should be informed. Easy to fix with their resources but I wonder how many are out there in this condition.
Note the lower bolt, is an Ingalls 81260 Fast Cam Camber bolt. +/_ 2 degrees aprox $16.00 from sumitracing.
With the upper bolt in -2 and camber bolts, I should be able to get -2 to -4 camber.
The fit issue was not caused by the lower bolt, the stock upper one was the issue.
I will report on the ride once I get this install done.
Warm up your angle grinders.
Mitsuatb
Last edited by mitsuatb; Mar 24, 2008 at 08:19 PM.
Finished - results
I got my alignment today.
This setup is at stock ride height with stock springs
With the camber bolt, I had the car aligned this way:
Front:
-3 camber 0 toe (Could have gone much higher, -3 was easy to get)
Rear:
-1.5 camber 0 toe
The ride is at least 30% less harsh, with very similar handling. Perhaps a little more body roll, I don't think I would want it any softer than this.
Bilstein HD Rear shocks are about 6mm larger in diameter than the KYB.
They have a new lower spring perch due to the larger shock body.
Mitsuatb
This setup is at stock ride height with stock springs
With the camber bolt, I had the car aligned this way:
Front:
-3 camber 0 toe (Could have gone much higher, -3 was easy to get)
Rear:
-1.5 camber 0 toe
The ride is at least 30% less harsh, with very similar handling. Perhaps a little more body roll, I don't think I would want it any softer than this.
Bilstein HD Rear shocks are about 6mm larger in diameter than the KYB.
They have a new lower spring perch due to the larger shock body.
Mitsuatb
Last edited by mitsuatb; Mar 29, 2008 at 09:08 PM.
I called Bilstein of America to discuss the HD setup for my ride and they indeed said the valving is different. When I asked how it was different they just said they were not sure as they had not torn one apart. They will revalve and or rebuild any of their shocks/struts for around $125 each unit. I had this done on my Porsche and results were outstanding.
While I have never driven or ridden in an Evo with the HD Bilsteins I would imagine they would be far superior to the KYB's as KYB is typically overdamped and harsh IMO.
In the end I picked up a set of used Bilsteins and saved a coule hundred over buying the HD's
While I have never driven or ridden in an Evo with the HD Bilsteins I would imagine they would be far superior to the KYB's as KYB is typically overdamped and harsh IMO.
In the end I picked up a set of used Bilsteins and saved a coule hundred over buying the HD's
Foot Note to HD install
The rear shock black plastic dust boots are a tighter fit on the Bilstein HD's due to their 6mm larger dia.
I noticed a faint squeaking from the rear of my car.
I took a can of silicone spray and gave the rear dust boots a shot at their base, and rubbed it around with my fingers.
The squeaking stopped.
I expect it might come back, but I think at some point it will wear a little and clear.
I mention this because it would have been easy to clean / lube the dust boot during the install, or use a different boot.
I decided to use the stock bolts in the -1 position.
With the strut ears, ground to clear the kunckle mill cuts.
The strut was installed, and a floor jack was used lightly under the front disk to preload the strut into a max negative position.
Then the bolts were torqued to 130 ft-lbs.
Results were Front (L -1.5 ) (R -1.3)
So the fit is pretty good and close to OEM specs. The front .2 cross camber does not cause any pull.
Mitsuatb
I noticed a faint squeaking from the rear of my car.
I took a can of silicone spray and gave the rear dust boots a shot at their base, and rubbed it around with my fingers.
The squeaking stopped.
I expect it might come back, but I think at some point it will wear a little and clear.
I mention this because it would have been easy to clean / lube the dust boot during the install, or use a different boot.
I decided to use the stock bolts in the -1 position.
With the strut ears, ground to clear the kunckle mill cuts.
The strut was installed, and a floor jack was used lightly under the front disk to preload the strut into a max negative position.
Then the bolts were torqued to 130 ft-lbs.
Results were Front (L -1.5 ) (R -1.3)
So the fit is pretty good and close to OEM specs. The front .2 cross camber does not cause any pull.
Mitsuatb
Last edited by mitsuatb; Apr 12, 2008 at 05:35 PM.
Another thing to keep in mind with the Bilstein HDs....the fronts have internal bumpstops. So DO NOT swap the oem bumpstops to the new strut. You don't need two. 
This presents a problem as the dust boot is incorporated into the bumpstop. You NEED dust boots, so you need to do something.
Our solution: Subaru Impreza STI rear dust boots we had laying around fit perfectly and completely keep dirt out. Sweet!
- Andrew
This presents a problem as the dust boot is incorporated into the bumpstop. You NEED dust boots, so you need to do something.
Our solution: Subaru Impreza STI rear dust boots we had laying around fit perfectly and completely keep dirt out. Sweet!
- Andrew