ride height/alignment specs help - setup listed
Question to all: Where can I find alternative coilover springs to fit the Megan tracks?
Specifucally, where did you source the 14k rear and 16K rear springs for your megans?
Megan is apparently out of 14K rears - he also said I should only run 62mm ID springs and seems like swift is either 60mm or 65mm!
I am guessing I need a 200mm spring with 62mm ID which is what the megan seems to be?
Specifucally, where did you source the 14k rear and 16K rear springs for your megans?
Megan is apparently out of 14K rears - he also said I should only run 62mm ID springs and seems like swift is either 60mm or 65mm!
I am guessing I need a 200mm spring with 62mm ID which is what the megan seems to be?
203 mm X-coil springs from zeal will work. This is their application guide:
http://endlessusa.com/appguide/X-Coil%20Springs.htm
http://endlessusa.com/appguide/X-Coil%20Springs.htm
.
203 mm X-coil springs from zeal will work. This is their application guide:
http://endlessusa.com/appguide/X-Coil%20Springs.htm
http://endlessusa.com/appguide/X-Coil%20Springs.htm
I will update this thread with pics and such once I get it...
"From my experience"
The lower the car is, the more it negatively impacts camber loss on compression of the front suspension. Robispec recommended to me keeping the car very close to stock suspension height to allow the vehicle's suspension to work in the way it was intended. Lowering the vehicle too much increases the roll couple (distance between roll center and cg) which in turn makes the vehicle roll side to side too much. With too much side to side roll you have to run stiffer suspension to limit wheel travel in order not to have too much camber gain.
What I would recommend is a very modest drop to allow for sufficient wheel travel (important for street handling and comfort) and the ability to not have to run extremely stiff anti roll bars (which can attribute to lifting the inside rear wheel) and still be able to keep roll in check.
I can't give my personal recommendation on spring rates as I haven't had much experience with them on the Evo, but I currently use the recommended springs with the Cusco Zero2R suspension and I feel they are actually quite adequate in being able to absorb bumps on the track while not upsetting the car's attitude during turns. Body roll isn't very significant, but I do not use the R Comps that you will be using.
As far as alignment. My personal specs are:
Camber F/R 2.5/1.5 (2.5 Is not enough up front, I will be fixing this shortly, 3.2 does sound like a good starting point)
Toe F/R 0/0
Caster As much as possible (I think it is around 4-5 degrees, but I would have to double check, and more is recommended)
I agree with MadMax has to say on most points and hopefully this helps give you a few more ideas.
Dan
The lower the car is, the more it negatively impacts camber loss on compression of the front suspension. Robispec recommended to me keeping the car very close to stock suspension height to allow the vehicle's suspension to work in the way it was intended. Lowering the vehicle too much increases the roll couple (distance between roll center and cg) which in turn makes the vehicle roll side to side too much. With too much side to side roll you have to run stiffer suspension to limit wheel travel in order not to have too much camber gain.
What I would recommend is a very modest drop to allow for sufficient wheel travel (important for street handling and comfort) and the ability to not have to run extremely stiff anti roll bars (which can attribute to lifting the inside rear wheel) and still be able to keep roll in check.
I can't give my personal recommendation on spring rates as I haven't had much experience with them on the Evo, but I currently use the recommended springs with the Cusco Zero2R suspension and I feel they are actually quite adequate in being able to absorb bumps on the track while not upsetting the car's attitude during turns. Body roll isn't very significant, but I do not use the R Comps that you will be using.
As far as alignment. My personal specs are:
Camber F/R 2.5/1.5 (2.5 Is not enough up front, I will be fixing this shortly, 3.2 does sound like a good starting point)
Toe F/R 0/0
Caster As much as possible (I think it is around 4-5 degrees, but I would have to double check, and more is recommended)
I agree with MadMax has to say on most points and hopefully this helps give you a few more ideas.
Dan
I wanted to add my spring rates.
7k front/ 5k rear
It could be due to my AYC, but I don't need more rotation
so I am happy with the spring rates for now. I plan on focusing on other aspects of the car's handling first.
After re reading it. My personal opinion is that even with parallel control arms, the Evo is over lowered. Just eyeballing it, I would recommend a slight incline from the mounting point on the hub towards the mounting points on the subframe. But MadMax is correct, calculating the roll center is the absolute best way to do it.
Dan
7k front/ 5k rear
It could be due to my AYC, but I don't need more rotation
so I am happy with the spring rates for now. I plan on focusing on other aspects of the car's handling first.After re reading it. My personal opinion is that even with parallel control arms, the Evo is over lowered. Just eyeballing it, I would recommend a slight incline from the mounting point on the hub towards the mounting points on the subframe. But MadMax is correct, calculating the roll center is the absolute best way to do it.
Dan
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I'm a track day & time attack junkie.
The car is an '03 with stock bushings, swaybars etc. running Zeal coilovers. Camber is 3.5 front & 1.8 rear with 0 toe all around. The car is very neutral with the ability to get some very mild power-on oversteer in really slow corners and some very mild power-on understeer in a few very fast corner exits that could probably be fixed with a ride height adjustment. My car is currently riding a bit low but not slammed (some correct lower arm slant at all 4 corners) on my coilovers. The car is essentially at full weight with a complete interior.
I am managing to hit the bump stops running 8k front / 10k rear springs on test days with just Azenis 615 for tires. On R compounds it is much worse - I will be on the bump stops well before apex on most longer corners.
I have also recently been in an Evo running Swift's race springs. That car was on the bump stops mid-corner & seemed to show some understeer on corner exits. While I expect alignment may have played a part in some of the understeer, I also think that a ride height adjustment would also have helped things out. Following that car on the track I have even seen it tripod very slightly on the entrance to a couple of the more abrupt corners.
For next year I'm considering a 12k front / 16k rear or 14k front / 18k rear spring set-up along with more work on the ride heights. When I contact Endless for the springs I'll have to see if the damping in my struts will be able to support those spring rates.
The car is an '03 with stock bushings, swaybars etc. running Zeal coilovers. Camber is 3.5 front & 1.8 rear with 0 toe all around. The car is very neutral with the ability to get some very mild power-on oversteer in really slow corners and some very mild power-on understeer in a few very fast corner exits that could probably be fixed with a ride height adjustment. My car is currently riding a bit low but not slammed (some correct lower arm slant at all 4 corners) on my coilovers. The car is essentially at full weight with a complete interior.
I am managing to hit the bump stops running 8k front / 10k rear springs on test days with just Azenis 615 for tires. On R compounds it is much worse - I will be on the bump stops well before apex on most longer corners.
I have also recently been in an Evo running Swift's race springs. That car was on the bump stops mid-corner & seemed to show some understeer on corner exits. While I expect alignment may have played a part in some of the understeer, I also think that a ride height adjustment would also have helped things out. Following that car on the track I have even seen it tripod very slightly on the entrance to a couple of the more abrupt corners.
For next year I'm considering a 12k front / 16k rear or 14k front / 18k rear spring set-up along with more work on the ride heights. When I contact Endless for the springs I'll have to see if the damping in my struts will be able to support those spring rates.
I'm a track day & time attack junkie.
The car is an '03 with stock bushings, swaybars etc. running Zeal coilovers. Camber is 3.5 front & 1.8 rear with 0 toe all around. The car is very neutral with the ability to get some very mild power-on oversteer in really slow corners and some very mild power-on understeer in a few very fast corner exits that could probably be fixed with a ride height adjustment. My car is currently riding a bit low but not slammed (some correct lower arm slant at all 4 corners) on my coilovers. The car is essentially at full weight with a complete interior.
I am managing to hit the bump stops running 8k front / 10k rear springs on test days with just Azenis 615 for tires. On R compounds it is much worse - I will be on the bump stops well before apex on most longer corners.
I have also recently been in an Evo running Swift's race springs. That car was on the bump stops mid-corner & seemed to show some understeer on corner exits. While I expect alignment may have played a part in some of the understeer, I also think that a ride height adjustment would also have helped things out. Following that car on the track I have even seen it tripod very slightly on the entrance to a couple of the more abrupt corners.
For next year I'm considering a 12k front / 16k rear or 14k front / 18k rear spring set-up along with more work on the ride heights. When I contact Endless for the springs I'll have to see if the damping in my struts will be able to support those spring rates.
The car is an '03 with stock bushings, swaybars etc. running Zeal coilovers. Camber is 3.5 front & 1.8 rear with 0 toe all around. The car is very neutral with the ability to get some very mild power-on oversteer in really slow corners and some very mild power-on understeer in a few very fast corner exits that could probably be fixed with a ride height adjustment. My car is currently riding a bit low but not slammed (some correct lower arm slant at all 4 corners) on my coilovers. The car is essentially at full weight with a complete interior.
I am managing to hit the bump stops running 8k front / 10k rear springs on test days with just Azenis 615 for tires. On R compounds it is much worse - I will be on the bump stops well before apex on most longer corners.
I have also recently been in an Evo running Swift's race springs. That car was on the bump stops mid-corner & seemed to show some understeer on corner exits. While I expect alignment may have played a part in some of the understeer, I also think that a ride height adjustment would also have helped things out. Following that car on the track I have even seen it tripod very slightly on the entrance to a couple of the more abrupt corners.
For next year I'm considering a 12k front / 16k rear or 14k front / 18k rear spring set-up along with more work on the ride heights. When I contact Endless for the springs I'll have to see if the damping in my struts will be able to support those spring rates.
14k/18k is less common with evos but I think would work better (close to 2.2/2.4 Hz of natural frequency front/ rear) with stockish sway bar rates and would be ultimately faster at the track while a nightmare in the streets.
However, your valving has to be on point(both rebound and compression) to make it work. Endless USA offers revalving and are pretty good but I would not trust the adjuster too much(significant crosstalk between compression rebound on mine). When you talk to them about the revalve for your springs ask them to set the dial on all 4 as close to 65% critical damping in the 0-3 in/sec range possible; they will know what you are talking about.
12k/16k front to rear is popular and ran by many and is what I'd suggest for a car that see double duty Street/track and the remaining undesired roll angle can be controlled with the sway bars.
14k/18k is less common with evos but I think would work better (close to 2.2/2.4 Hz of natural frequency front/ rear) with stockish sway bar rates and would be ultimately faster at the track while a nightmare in the streets.
14k/18k is less common with evos but I think would work better (close to 2.2/2.4 Hz of natural frequency front/ rear) with stockish sway bar rates and would be ultimately faster at the track while a nightmare in the streets.
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12k/16k front to rear is popular and ran by many and is what I'd suggest for a car that see double duty Street/track and the remaining undesired roll angle can be controlled with the sway bars.
14k/18k is less common with evos but I think would work better (close to 2.2/2.4 Hz of natural frequency front/ rear) with stockish sway bar rates and would be ultimately faster at the track while a nightmare in the streets.
However, your valving has to be on point(both rebound and compression) to make it work. Endless USA offers revalving and are pretty good but I would not trust the adjuster too much(significant crosstalk between compression rebound on mine). When you talk to them about the revalve for your springs ask them to set the dial on all 4 as close to 65% critical damping in the 0-3 in/sec range possible; they will know what you are talking about.
14k/18k is less common with evos but I think would work better (close to 2.2/2.4 Hz of natural frequency front/ rear) with stockish sway bar rates and would be ultimately faster at the track while a nightmare in the streets.
However, your valving has to be on point(both rebound and compression) to make it work. Endless USA offers revalving and are pretty good but I would not trust the adjuster too much(significant crosstalk between compression rebound on mine). When you talk to them about the revalve for your springs ask them to set the dial on all 4 as close to 65% critical damping in the 0-3 in/sec range possible; they will know what you are talking about.
I have considered a mild increase in spring rate (from 8k/10k) with huge sway bars as well. I suspect that would give better compliance on rough tracks (& for street use). The downside would probably be less diagonal stability than stiffer springs would provide and a larger possibility of lifting the inside rear wheel (that air thing again). While the Evo suspension is quite different from a RUF, I have a friend who chipped a tooth a Sebring running 16k rear springs on a RUF. Really stiff spring rates with significant bumps at high speed can be brutal. Thoughts?
Last edited by erioshi; Oct 11, 2008 at 01:53 AM.
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Hmm - just read the STU: Understeer Understeer!! can you help? thread. More to think about.