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Coilover Opinion

   
Old Feb 17, 2009, 02:34 PM
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Coilover Opinion
Hey All.

Just looking for peoples opinioins on the following Coilovers. My car is a Daily Driver, but is also used on 'spirited' street driving and circuit. Im not really interested in different spring rates. Also, the coilovers MUST be reliable, as I have a set of Cusco Zero-2E on at the moment, which have failed after 40,000km.
  • Stance AL+ Pro (9kg Front / 8kg Rear)
  • Tein Monoflex (9kg Front / 7kg Rear)
  • HKS Hypermax III Sport (10kg Front / 8kg Rear)

Regards,
Alex
Last edited by Tonba; Feb 17, 2009 at 02:36 PM.
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:11 PM
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Have you considered KW coilovers...?
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:14 PM
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^ I have...

So the stance coilovers are not that good?
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:24 PM
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All 3 coilovers listed have incorrect spring rates for the EVO. You don't want stiffer fronts.

- Andrew
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:28 PM
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what's the correct spring rate for the evo?
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:32 PM
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Well it depends, on tire choice, driver preference, etc. BUT there are some guidelines to follow.

Here are some posts where i ranted on about the subject

Originally Posted by GTWorx.com
Originally Posted by Lancerguy'03
the hipermax III has 8kg and 7kg
the sports have 10kg and 8kg..

those dont seem too bad....and inline with what you get else where.
The EVO has a multi-link rear suspension....10k/8k does not work very well if you track or especially if you auto-x the car.

The spring rates on off the shelf KW's are not very good either.

EDIT: I'm not trying to **** all over a bunch of different brands, but it's really basic suspension stuff that even these big companies don't get right, and it's frustrating. Maybe it's because they make parts for 50-100 different cars and don't take the time to get things right for each one, but this is like chapter 1 in suspension design. I don't think it's a "safety" thing or a different design philosphy to make the car understeer like poo because the STI has a rear strut based suspension with a motion ration close to 1, so the 10k/8k these companies use actually works for that car. Sorry for ranting.

- Andrew
Originally Posted by GTWorx.com
Originally Posted by goofygrin
Andrew (GTWorks), what do you recommend? Stiffer in rear rather than stiffer in front? I'm following you saying that what is provided is bad, but maybe I missed where you gave recommendations for improvement.
Basically yes....you want a slightly stiffer rear spring than the front for the EVO 8 and 9. At the very least, even front and rear spring rates. Top auto-x setups are generally like 12k/16k, but i wouldn't do that for the street or track since that can be a handful.

The rear EVO spring is mounted inwards on the arm a little bit. Unlike the front strut which is pretty much mounted at the hub, a 5k spring rate in the rear does not mean a 5k rate at the wheel. Essentially the suspension arm is a moment arm....placing the spring inwards towards the pivot point means it needs to be stiffer. Sometimes you'll see people mention the "motion ratio." For the front EVO with the strut based suspennsion, it's close to 1. For the rear, it's somewhere between .6 to .9 (not gonna say exactly, but it's not too hard to measure).

Even Mitsubishi gave the stock car stiffer rates in the rear.

- Andrew

If you don't really care about performance, than it doesn't matter. But if you do, you're doing yourself and your car a disservice by getting backwards spring rates.

- Andrew
Last edited by GTWORX.com; Feb 17, 2009 at 04:41 PM.
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:36 PM
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Its funny..

In Japan, and here is Australia.. Stiffer springs in the rear seems silly, as a majority of the weight is over the front wheels.. Makes the car too taily..

In saying that, ignore the spring rates, What do people actually think of the coilovers themselfs..
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:38 PM
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^ Also, I dont do Auto-X... there is no need for that rear end to swing around quick.. I do track and street, and heaver springs at the rear would be a **** fight.. *lol*

Dont forget, I have AYC...
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:47 PM
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Well the AYC helps, but still....if you read what i posted....you'll see that even though the car is front heavy you still want stiffer rear springs. This is how the car comes stock.

- Andrew
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:50 PM
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I did have a read. Not saying your wrong, but it begs the question, why are all the Japanese and Australian's running higher front springs.. normally by 2kg?

And they have for a very long time.
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:52 PM
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Still, besides the spring rates, how do you rate the coilovers themselves?

Good quality?
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:53 PM
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Just to chime in here, have you considered the megan street series coilovers?
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tonba
I did have a read. Not saying your wrong, but it begs the question, why are all the Japanese and Australian's running higher front springs.. normally by 2kg?

And they have for a very long time.
Eh...that's a question i've tried to answer for a long time. No idea. I'd love for someone to present an explanation.

- Andrew
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 05:00 PM
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Anyone want to comment on the coilovers? Particually the Stance?
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Old Feb 17, 2009, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by GTWORX.com
All 3 coilovers listed have incorrect spring rates for the EVO. You don't want stiffer fronts.

- Andrew
A lot of these guys got it wrong? What about 12k front, 10K back+ RSB?

Originally Posted by Tri-Bar
Here is a list of the spring rate's for the Evo 8. If you know of any more, or if you have a corraction, let me know and I will change it.
Thanks.

Evo Spring Rates
Name
Lowering Springs:
...................................Front.......... ........Rear.............drop

Eibach Pro-Kit:**....165lbs(2.9k)....140lbs(2.5k)....1.2f / 1.2r
Espelir ASD:............263lbs(4.7k)....319lbs(5.7k)....79 f / .79r
Espelir GT:..............308lbs(5.5k)....330lbs(5.9k)....1 .7f/ .98r
Ralliart:...................280lbs(5.0k)....307lbs (5.5k)....0.5f / 0.5r
RSR:**....................224lbs(4.0k)....280lbs(5 .0k)....1.4f / 1.4r
RSR Ti2000..............280lbs(5.0k)....336lbs(6.0k).. ..1.4f / 0.8r
Stock(USDM):..........180lbs(3.2k)....225lbs(4.0k) ......STOCK
Tanabe GP210:.......256lbs(4.6k)....319lbs(5.7k)....1.5f / 1.0r
Tein High Tech:**...196lbs(3.5k)....268lbs(4.8k)....1.4f / 0.3r
Tein S Tech:**........212lbs(3.8k)... 291lbs(5.1k)....2.0f / 0.9r

Coilovers:

APEXI PRO:..............560lbs(10.K).....560lbs(10.K)... .Adjustable
CUSCO Zero 1:........392lbs(7.0K).....280lbs(5.0k)....Adjusta ble
CUSCO Zero 2:........392lbs(7.0K).....280lbs(5.0k)....Adjusta ble
CUSCO Zero 2R:......392lbs(7.0K).....280lbs(5.0k)....Adjustab le
HKS Hypermax II:....392lbs(7.0k).....336lbs(6.0K)....Adjustable
HKS Hypermax RS....336lbs(6.0K).....280lbs(5.0k)....Adjustable
HKS Kansai Tarmac:.448lbs(8.0K).....448lbs(8.0K)....Adjustabl e
HKS Kansai Track:....896lbs(16.K).....784lbs(14.K)....Adjusta ble
HKS Performer:........392lbs(7.0k).....336lbs(6.0k)... .Adjustable
HKS PRO:.................672lbs(12.K).....672lbs(12.K) ....Adjustable
JIC FLT A2:...............560lbs(10.K).....504lbs(9.0K)... Adjustable
OHLINS FLAG L:.............ANy ..............Any ...............Adjustable
OHLINS R/T:.............250lbs(4.4k).....310lbs(5.5k)....Ad justable
Ralliart:....................336lbs(6.0K).....336l bs(6.0K)....Adjustable
Tein Basic:...............392lbs(7.0k).....336lbs(6.0K) ....Adjustable
Tein Flex:.................672lbs(12.K).....560lbs(10.K ).....Adjustable (Corrected 6/6/06)
Tein SS:...................392lbs(7.0k).....336lbs(6.0k )....Adjustable
Tein RA:...................672lbs(12.K).....504lbs(9,0K )....Adjustable
Tein HA:...................504lbs(9.0K).....392lbs(7.0K )....Adjustable
Tein HT:...................896lbs(16.K).....672lbs(12.K )....Adjustable
ZEAL:.......................336lbs(6.0K).....280lb s(5.0k)....Adjustable
ZEAL Also:...............448lbs(8.0k).....392lbs(7.0k). ...Adjustable

** = progressive rate

Edit: Edited Tein Flex adjustable as per info from chmodlf
Last edited by 18bora; Feb 17, 2009 at 05:03 PM.
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