Added Cusco braces and now understeers....now what?
Jul 24, 2009, 04:02 PM
#31
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Ok, I'm not going to try to **** people off here anymore as I don't want to get kicked out because I use this forum to look up many things.
Ludikraut - The General rule that I know to cure understeering is to work on the front end and try to create more grip. This would either mean to stiffen up the springs and/or anti-roll bar. Due to higher deflection under weight transfer this will load the tire quicker or "Bite" harder into the tarmac. As a bonus, this increase's driver response time. I believe the way you guys are suggesting is that the front springs are too stiff because you are overloading the tire quicker, thus producing less grip.
While I was experimenting with spring rates I never changed much except for keeping an eye on tire pressures and camber settings. Springs are just a rough in for handling.
Are you talking about that infamous demon inside the Evo when the rear suspension suddenly finds itself unloaded making the rear of the car light and pirouette into the gravel traps? Yea, also don't try this manouvre while shifting or suddenly letting off the gas pedal. Bad Bad Bad! I've noticed a rear bar helps quite a bit on the high speed corners. Also here in my general understanding softer springs generally absorb more weight and the spring unloads slower. This allows for better grip because under weight transfer, by allowing the sprung weight to roll while less energy is transferred from the tires. To be honest, as I am able to go faster through turns my limit is still caused by the rear trying to push out while exiting fast corners but at a much slower non-suprising rate than before. I wish I could change the rear differential lock, that would help greatly. Also In the works is a 2 tier rear diffuser that looks promissing so far.
Does anybody have a TA car that would care to release their suspension settings?
Ludikraut - The General rule that I know to cure understeering is to work on the front end and try to create more grip. This would either mean to stiffen up the springs and/or anti-roll bar. Due to higher deflection under weight transfer this will load the tire quicker or "Bite" harder into the tarmac. As a bonus, this increase's driver response time. I believe the way you guys are suggesting is that the front springs are too stiff because you are overloading the tire quicker, thus producing less grip.
While I was experimenting with spring rates I never changed much except for keeping an eye on tire pressures and camber settings. Springs are just a rough in for handling.
Are you talking about that infamous demon inside the Evo when the rear suspension suddenly finds itself unloaded making the rear of the car light and pirouette into the gravel traps? Yea, also don't try this manouvre while shifting or suddenly letting off the gas pedal. Bad Bad Bad! I've noticed a rear bar helps quite a bit on the high speed corners. Also here in my general understanding softer springs generally absorb more weight and the spring unloads slower. This allows for better grip because under weight transfer, by allowing the sprung weight to roll while less energy is transferred from the tires. To be honest, as I am able to go faster through turns my limit is still caused by the rear trying to push out while exiting fast corners but at a much slower non-suprising rate than before. I wish I could change the rear differential lock, that would help greatly. Also In the works is a 2 tier rear diffuser that looks promissing so far.
Does anybody have a TA car that would care to release their suspension settings?
Jul 25, 2009, 10:03 AM
#32
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Ok, I'm not going to try to **** people off here anymore as I don't want to get kicked out because I use this forum to look up many things.
Ludikraut - The General rule that I know to cure understeering is to work on the front end and try to create more grip. This would either mean to stiffen up the springs and/or anti-roll bar. Due to higher deflection under weight transfer this will load the tire quicker or "Bite" harder into the tarmac. As a bonus, this increase's driver response time. I believe the way you guys are suggesting is that the front springs are too stiff because you are overloading the tire quicker, thus producing less grip.
While I was experimenting with spring rates I never changed much except for keeping an eye on tire pressures and camber settings. Springs are just a rough in for handling.
Are you talking about that infamous demon inside the Evo when the rear suspension suddenly finds itself unloaded making the rear of the car light and pirouette into the gravel traps? Yea, also don't try this manouvre while shifting or suddenly letting off the gas pedal. Bad Bad Bad! I've noticed a rear bar helps quite a bit on the high speed corners. Also here in my general understanding softer springs generally absorb more weight and the spring unloads slower. This allows for better grip because under weight transfer, by allowing the sprung weight to roll while less energy is transferred from the tires. To be honest, as I am able to go faster through turns my limit is still caused by the rear trying to push out while exiting fast corners but at a much slower non-suprising rate than before. I wish I could change the rear differential lock, that would help greatly. Also In the works is a 2 tier rear diffuser that looks promissing so far...
Ludikraut - The General rule that I know to cure understeering is to work on the front end and try to create more grip. This would either mean to stiffen up the springs and/or anti-roll bar. Due to higher deflection under weight transfer this will load the tire quicker or "Bite" harder into the tarmac. As a bonus, this increase's driver response time. I believe the way you guys are suggesting is that the front springs are too stiff because you are overloading the tire quicker, thus producing less grip.
While I was experimenting with spring rates I never changed much except for keeping an eye on tire pressures and camber settings. Springs are just a rough in for handling.
Are you talking about that infamous demon inside the Evo when the rear suspension suddenly finds itself unloaded making the rear of the car light and pirouette into the gravel traps? Yea, also don't try this manouvre while shifting or suddenly letting off the gas pedal. Bad Bad Bad! I've noticed a rear bar helps quite a bit on the high speed corners. Also here in my general understanding softer springs generally absorb more weight and the spring unloads slower. This allows for better grip because under weight transfer, by allowing the sprung weight to roll while less energy is transferred from the tires. To be honest, as I am able to go faster through turns my limit is still caused by the rear trying to push out while exiting fast corners but at a much slower non-suprising rate than before. I wish I could change the rear differential lock, that would help greatly. Also In the works is a 2 tier rear diffuser that looks promissing so far...
My personal approach to handling on the Evo so far has been to leave the stock suspension completely alone. Believe-it-or-not, but the addition of a set of rear trailing arm bushings, whiteline bump steer correction kit, and TRE rear diff has gotten rid of almost all understeer on my '03. There's still some push on corner entry, but that's what trail braking is for. In steady-state cornering and on corner exit the car is completely neutral. I've never experience the situation you describe in regards to losing the rear-end of my Evo. The only time that's happened to me was in the rain when I (like an idiot) lifted in mid-corner.
In the future, I will be going to a slightly stiffer set of springs, matching struts, and adjustable front and rear anti-roll bars, with the intent of running a (relative to stock) stiffer front bar than rear bar. At this point, I'd prefer to run a softer spring/stiffer roll bar setup than going to a super hard set of springs to see if I can get better compliance out of my setup for going over curbs and rough patches on the track.
In principle, I agree with the philosophy of trying to get more grip out of the front end to cure understeer as opposed to lessening rear grip and so I disagree with the people that run a stiffer rear bar to get the car to rotate better. However, I don't think that your spring rates will do that effectively. I suspect that if you went to something like a 12k/14k f/r spring rate and combined that with a proportionally larger front than rear bar, you'll have a better balanced car and one that's less prone to lifting the rear inside tire. Then add a TRE rear diff to cure any mid-corner and corner exit push. The only time I can see running a much stiffer front spring than rear spring on an Evo is if you're able to generate enough downforce to where you need to keep the front-end from diving under braking.
l8r)
