suspension question
Oct 16, 2003, 06:19 PM
#16
Regarding the issue on stressing the drive train, when you lower a car, it now sits lower, changing the general position in the suspension travel it spends most of its time at. For example, if your axles are pointing at a downward angle from stock, and you lower the car an extreme amount, the axle might now be pointing up. Since it was not designed to be rotating much with the joints in that position, you could be putting extra stress on those joints, which would transfer to the rest of your drive train, including the differential, tranny, etc. However, I believe lowering the car a small amount has little effect on this at all, unless it will cause inverted control arms (for reference, anything more than 2" drop on my Lancer would create such a problem).
As for whether the Evo handles better stock or lowered, I can't comment from personal experience since I have never driven an evo lowered, but I can say that some of the district champions in my area agree that about a 1" drop with Koni shocks make a large improvement on their Evos, which made a strong showing at Nationals last month.
As for whether the Evo handles better stock or lowered, I can't comment from personal experience since I have never driven an evo lowered, but I can say that some of the district champions in my area agree that about a 1" drop with Koni shocks make a large improvement on their Evos, which made a strong showing at Nationals last month.
Oct 16, 2003, 06:30 PM
#17
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Good post and it maybe better for autocross, Autocross is fast turns and slow speed . Road race = fast speed and slow turns, I had a NSX setup for the track and it SUCKED on the autocross track. Autocross is 100x different then a track event, in fact I think the track is less stress because you don't have to remember 14 turns in 50 seconds.
Originally posted by urbanknight
Regarding the issue on stressing the drive train, when you lower a car, it now sits lower, changing the general position in the suspension travel it spends most of its time at. For example, if your axles are pointing at a downward angle from stock, and you lower the car an extreme amount, the axle might now be pointing up. Since it was not designed to be rotating much with the joints in that position, you could be putting extra stress on those joints, which would transfer to the rest of your drive train, including the differential, tranny, etc. However, I believe lowering the car a small amount has little effect on this at all, unless it will cause inverted control arms (for reference, anything more than 2" drop on my Lancer would create such a problem).
As for whether the Evo handles better stock or lowered, I can't comment from personal experience since I have never driven an evo lowered, but I can say that some of the district champions in my area agree that about a 1" drop with Koni shocks make a large improvement on their Evos, which made a strong showing at Nationals last month.
Regarding the issue on stressing the drive train, when you lower a car, it now sits lower, changing the general position in the suspension travel it spends most of its time at. For example, if your axles are pointing at a downward angle from stock, and you lower the car an extreme amount, the axle might now be pointing up. Since it was not designed to be rotating much with the joints in that position, you could be putting extra stress on those joints, which would transfer to the rest of your drive train, including the differential, tranny, etc. However, I believe lowering the car a small amount has little effect on this at all, unless it will cause inverted control arms (for reference, anything more than 2" drop on my Lancer would create such a problem).
As for whether the Evo handles better stock or lowered, I can't comment from personal experience since I have never driven an evo lowered, but I can say that some of the district champions in my area agree that about a 1" drop with Koni shocks make a large improvement on their Evos, which made a strong showing at Nationals last month.
Oct 16, 2003, 06:35 PM
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FT - ignore this guy - he knows everything. To the original post, the advice you've been receiving is good. The stock suspension feels good, but it is very soft and will compress fully without much load on it. I also agree with FT - I wouldn't do springs alone unless it's just for looks. There are a lot of good coilover set-ups out there. If you are looking for adjustability (ie daily driving as well as track stuff), the Tein Flex is a good choice since it can be adjusted electronically from the cockpit. Just keep checking around and you'll find a set that works for you. You could also go to the track and ask other Evo owners what setup they're using.
Oct 16, 2003, 06:41 PM
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lol and you are the pro? I don't think your folks will let you take there car on the track. I am done with saying what I think works best. Hell what do I know I only do a track event every month. Get the 3" drop and enjoy a car that is worse then stock and bounce around like a retard and scew the camber, caster, and toe all to hell. Enjoy the -3 camber.
Originally posted by Chris in HB
FT - ignore this guy - he knows everything. To the original post, the advice you've been receiving is good. The stock suspension feels good, but it is very soft and will compress fully without much load on it. I also agree with FT - I wouldn't do springs alone unless it's just for looks. There are a lot of good coilover set-ups out there. If you are looking for adjustability (ie daily driving as well as track stuff), the Tein Flex is a good choice since it can be adjusted electronically from the cockpit. Just keep checking around and you'll find a set that works for you. You could also go to the track and ask other Evo owners what setup they're using.
FT - ignore this guy - he knows everything. To the original post, the advice you've been receiving is good. The stock suspension feels good, but it is very soft and will compress fully without much load on it. I also agree with FT - I wouldn't do springs alone unless it's just for looks. There are a lot of good coilover set-ups out there. If you are looking for adjustability (ie daily driving as well as track stuff), the Tein Flex is a good choice since it can be adjusted electronically from the cockpit. Just keep checking around and you'll find a set that works for you. You could also go to the track and ask other Evo owners what setup they're using.
Oct 16, 2003, 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by Ryanmcd2
lol and you are the pro? I don't think your folks will let you take there car on the track. I am done with saying what I think works best. Hell what do I know I only do a track event every month. Get the 3" drop and enjoy a car that is worse then stock and bounce around like a retard and scew the camber, caster, and toe all to hell. Enjoy the -3 camber.
lol and you are the pro? I don't think your folks will let you take there car on the track. I am done with saying what I think works best. Hell what do I know I only do a track event every month. Get the 3" drop and enjoy a car that is worse then stock and bounce around like a retard and scew the camber, caster, and toe all to hell. Enjoy the -3 camber.
Oct 16, 2003, 07:54 PM
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All the armchair racing aside, Mitsubish CAN void your warranty if the wind blows the wrong way - thats the reality of the situation. But, I have never seen a car lowered so drastically that it cuased drivetrain issues. I would certainly not sell nor endorse a product that had such ill effects - that would classify int the realm of a detriment, not an improvement, and thats not what we are about.
Second, lets keep things in perspective here: the initial post asked about a recommended suspension setup for a mild ride height drop, and compliance on the street. Given those "wants", my suggestions are sound I think. Sure, it would be great to have a set of FLTA2's or Zeal's in there, but thats gross overkill for what this gentleman is asking for. I see no mentions of track days planned, so I do nto think that is high on the priority list for him either (if it is, let me know). Even with the occassional track day, the Tein, Tanabe or Eibach springs would do just fine.
I do agree that ideally, you want to change shocks and springs, though this is largely unchartered territory on this car at this point, and the options are slim to say the least. A spring like the Tein S Tech or Tanabe were designed around stock dampeners,and given the midl spring rates, wont cause any ill effects with under or over dampening.
I have driven in a car that has the S Techs in it, with stock wheel, tires and 32 psi in all 4 tires - it rode much like a stock Evo, though was a bit flatter in the corners. How a car handles on a track, or in an autocross, is such a subjective thing, that it barely warrants talking about in this kind of medium, as there are way too many variables. Again, its also outside the realm of the original post I think.
There is no ideal suspension setting for the same track on different days, let alone for different customers with different goals.
Everyone likes to fancy themsevels a race driver, but honestly, its not even remotely in the realm of the original post (and FWIW, I race an average of 2 x a month, so I know what I am talking about in that regard as well, albeit its a BMW, not an Evo). What works well for the street is often horrible for the track, and vice versa. There also is teh highly subjective aspect of the driver skill, which is often taughted, and rarely possed. I have personally been racing on an off for 10 years now - its one of those situations where you are forever a student, as there is always something to learn.
Adam
Second, lets keep things in perspective here: the initial post asked about a recommended suspension setup for a mild ride height drop, and compliance on the street. Given those "wants", my suggestions are sound I think. Sure, it would be great to have a set of FLTA2's or Zeal's in there, but thats gross overkill for what this gentleman is asking for. I see no mentions of track days planned, so I do nto think that is high on the priority list for him either (if it is, let me know). Even with the occassional track day, the Tein, Tanabe or Eibach springs would do just fine.
I do agree that ideally, you want to change shocks and springs, though this is largely unchartered territory on this car at this point, and the options are slim to say the least. A spring like the Tein S Tech or Tanabe were designed around stock dampeners,and given the midl spring rates, wont cause any ill effects with under or over dampening.
I have driven in a car that has the S Techs in it, with stock wheel, tires and 32 psi in all 4 tires - it rode much like a stock Evo, though was a bit flatter in the corners. How a car handles on a track, or in an autocross, is such a subjective thing, that it barely warrants talking about in this kind of medium, as there are way too many variables. Again, its also outside the realm of the original post I think.
There is no ideal suspension setting for the same track on different days, let alone for different customers with different goals.
Everyone likes to fancy themsevels a race driver, but honestly, its not even remotely in the realm of the original post (and FWIW, I race an average of 2 x a month, so I know what I am talking about in that regard as well, albeit its a BMW, not an Evo). What works well for the street is often horrible for the track, and vice versa. There also is teh highly subjective aspect of the driver skill, which is often taughted, and rarely possed. I have personally been racing on an off for 10 years now - its one of those situations where you are forever a student, as there is always something to learn.
Adam
Last edited by Z1 Performance; Oct 16, 2003 at 08:02 PM.
Oct 16, 2003, 08:33 PM
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ok aso I've been looking arounfd a bit and worked out that I'd really prefer a full kit (coilovers, shocks, springs,etc) I would race this car like every 2 months on a track so I assume an adjustable kit would be best... now... which? (IT'd still be a road car too... ) I don't know suspensions brands enoughto choose yet...
Oct 16, 2003, 08:40 PM
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Do this, do a few track days 100% stock, then see what needs to be changed. It's like ordering some food and putting a ton of salt on it even though you have not even tasted it before. Please do a track day and get back with us. I think you will be impressed. Also get a set of pad and add the air guides, that's where it will be money well spent. The pads take 2 min to change 2 pins and a clip.
Originally posted by V8EatEr
ok aso I've been looking arounfd a bit and worked out that I'd really prefer a full kit (coilovers, shocks, springs,etc) I would race this car like every 2 months on a track so I assume an adjustable kit would be best... now... which? (IT'd still be a road car too... ) I don't know suspensions brands enoughto choose yet...
ok aso I've been looking arounfd a bit and worked out that I'd really prefer a full kit (coilovers, shocks, springs,etc) I would race this car like every 2 months on a track so I assume an adjustable kit would be best... now... which? (IT'd still be a road car too... ) I don't know suspensions brands enoughto choose yet...
Oct 16, 2003, 08:52 PM
#25
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ttoally agree with the above - take it out stock first if track days are what you are planning. Try to bring someone who knows is familar with such events. bring a compressor and a tire temperature gauge, learn to drive your car quickly, lear how to tell what effects your changes in pressure are having, then go from there.
It will be very difficult to get a suspension that will be exemplary on and off track, but if you do your homework you can strike a good balance between the 2, and there are many different paths to get there.
It will be very difficult to get a suspension that will be exemplary on and off track, but if you do your homework you can strike a good balance between the 2, and there are many different paths to get there.
Oct 16, 2003, 09:35 PM
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Track and auto-x events certainly do show the weaknesses of vehicles in relation to its driver.
However, there are certain facts. In stock form, the roll degree per 1 G exceeds 3.5 degrees. Depending on purpose that is a good value, and for some, like Ryan, that is quite acceptable. For others it is not.
V8eatr's first messages are vague in his purposes for looking into springs and lowering. Hence many threw out ideas based on their experiences. One thing is clear however, as I mentioned earlier, one man's ideal setup can be another's worst nightmare. It is in the driving style, expectations, situation, etc. There is no one answer. For me chassis tuning is "black magic", if you get it right, it will do wonders.
In terms of track experience, I do my fair share of them. Pro? Hmm, if you mean do I make money out of suspensions? Yes, I do. Have I driven an Evo? More than few, however our main development vehicle is actually the STi as we think it needs a little more help in terms of its chassis at this time.
Be safe all.
However, there are certain facts. In stock form, the roll degree per 1 G exceeds 3.5 degrees. Depending on purpose that is a good value, and for some, like Ryan, that is quite acceptable. For others it is not.
V8eatr's first messages are vague in his purposes for looking into springs and lowering. Hence many threw out ideas based on their experiences. One thing is clear however, as I mentioned earlier, one man's ideal setup can be another's worst nightmare. It is in the driving style, expectations, situation, etc. There is no one answer. For me chassis tuning is "black magic", if you get it right, it will do wonders.
In terms of track experience, I do my fair share of them. Pro? Hmm, if you mean do I make money out of suspensions? Yes, I do. Have I driven an Evo? More than few, however our main development vehicle is actually the STi as we think it needs a little more help in terms of its chassis at this time.
Be safe all.
Oct 17, 2003, 12:01 AM
#27
I may not have as much experience as Ryan, but I can say with certainty that I have been to quite a number of track events as well as autocross events with my car both stock and modded, as well as on a few other cars. I do agree that track events have less stress on both the car and the driver as said above, of course that doesn't make winning any easier. I'm scared to death of trying to pass someone in a corner, especially in my daily driver... you don't pass anyone in an autocross. Anyway, it is also true that cars react much differently on the track as on an autocross course. You will actually get more push on an autocross course than track, so take that into consideration before deciding what to do to it.
Looking back over my post and other posts, we all have a little too much pride in here, and I noticed I was bypassing the main point of other people's comments, as other people seemed to be missing what others are saying.
Thank you for bringing us back on topic FS. Like they say, ask 10 people, get 10 answers, not he just needs to decide what he wants to do.
Looking back over my post and other posts, we all have a little too much pride in here, and I noticed I was bypassing the main point of other people's comments, as other people seemed to be missing what others are saying.
Thank you for bringing us back on topic FS. Like they say, ask 10 people, get 10 answers, not he just needs to decide what he wants to do.
Oct 17, 2003, 08:23 AM
#28
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V8 - so bottom line, there are many different options for you to go with. What you may want to do is hook up with some local Evo owners and see what they have done so far in terms of suspension mods - its so hard to get a real perspective from the forums here, as FSeleker said, one man's treasure is another man's garbage!
Your car was blessed with excellent handling out of the box, but there are areas it can be improved. What you need to do is define for yourself what areas you want to improve, and what compromises, if any, you are willing to live with.
From there I think many of us can then help you towards a system that will work well for you
Your car was blessed with excellent handling out of the box, but there are areas it can be improved. What you need to do is define for yourself what areas you want to improve, and what compromises, if any, you are willing to live with.
From there I think many of us can then help you towards a system that will work well for you
Oct 17, 2003, 08:47 AM
#29
i took my car to 2 track days when it was totally stock and i had a great time and was very happy with the car. i felt a little to much body roll and a bit of understeer so i decided to remedy it with some cusco suspension bits from Adam. after i installed the rear sway bar, i felt that the body roll was reduced and the car was more stable around the turn although it takes some getting used to. also, installling front and rear strut bars will give you a stiffer and more responsive car. i agree with the above comments about driving the car and then deciding what you want and need. i advice you to hook up with some EVO owners in your erea that have done some suspension work and see what they done and how their car rides.
Snir
Snir