i got vibration when i switch the rear tire to front on both sides, vibration at 60mph

 

All tires have RFV (radial force variation) as well as LFV (lateral force variation), which can cause pulling. In fact, alot of aftermarket tires you buy at stores are OEM rejects which does not pass for one of the force variations. On top of this, you have conicity, which is a tires tendency to form a "cone" shape as it rolls.

At the OEM level, we tune all of these for a LHD vehicle to pull the vehicle to the left and opposite for RHD. This is because all U.S. roads are built with a crown, which will pull your vehicle to the right. We tune the tires exactly to pull the vehicle to the left, which you as the customer will see as "no pulling" even though there's a constant tug between these forces keeping your vehicle in line. We also conicity sort our tires (usually within +/- 80N in a few increments) so the conicity effects do not end up aligning, which can cause a drastic pull in the vehicle.

Long story short? Move your tires around. If the alignment is good, its probably conicity that's causing your pulling. If you are by a shop (mostly dealers only) which can do a road force balancing, that may help as well. Just FYI, its almost never impbalance that causes pulling. Imbalance causes "torsional nibbling" (michelin's term), which is a shaking steering wheel. Most pulling, outside of alignments, is due to conicity. Good luck!

 

^ Your first paragraph is a load of crap the dealer fed you.

There is no way of knowing what is wrong with this guys car if he doesn't post the alignment specs first.

 

i dont think US cars are made to pull to the right, it didn't happened with my stockies, never happened in any other car that i have drove. I just don't know why it is doing this.

im going to have all four wheels rebalanced and see what it will do. It just drive me nuts when everything is so new and I don't want to spend more money into tires if it's really the tires problem.

I will post the alignement specs up soon so you guys could kindly point out what's wrong.

 

It's not a load of crap, considering its what I do for a living. I'm a tire and chassis engineer for Toyota, and I'm one of the people who specify force variations as well as conicity sorting. And considering how much money we pay every year for the big 3 tire manufacturers to sort our tires and how quickly warranty claims for "pulling" shoots up as soon as a supplier messes up their sorting, I KNOW its necessary. So yeah, definitely not crap

Also, OP, as I said, the tires are made to pull to offset the road crown. Try switching them around, it won't take more than a few minutes of your time and can solve your problem possibly. Or post the alignment specs so others can chime in.

 

If you exchange tires front to back and the pull goes away, it is the tire. If you do one side at a time you can tell which tire it bad. The seller should warranty the tire. So, get out the lug wrench.

 

Not sure if this has been mentioned but low tire pressure will definitely cause a pull.

A tire out of balance will not affect alignment.

 

LOL. I've sold thousands upon thousands of tires. I've seen more brand new cars with pulling problems than those with new tires installed. Last week I just saw a new Honda Civic with less than 10k miles exhibit radial pull on it's set of OE tires.
You guys must not be doing that great a job.

To say aftermarket tires are "rejects" is a strong statement.

My experience with "engineers" is that they over look, and over complicate things.

Post the specs, and we'll go from there.

 

Did I at any point say just because we plan or specify something, its always met on point? There's hundreds of cases where parts are built out of spec. Not saying engineers are not at fault, but it generally comes down to someone being lazy in Q.C. or things like machine quality, variation, etc. Still, mistakes do happen, which is why recalls happen. Crazy to believe human beings can make mistakes, or miss a small bit of information that later becomes important?

Sure its strong, but its true. On average, one of the big three tire suppliers (B/S, Michelin, and G/Y) will reject about 1/4-1/3 of all tires made for an OEM application due to a first harmonic variation or conicity. These obviously don't get thrown away, they get sent to stores for sale. Granted, there is NOTHING really wrong with these tires, its just they couldn't be matched up with any thing else so they go to the aftermarket, which doesn't care and doesn't have the capability for sorting these tires, nor does the customer usually care. And obviously in the aftermarket, most drivers don't have the calibrated butts some of our test drivers have A lot of tires in the aftermarket don't share any mods with OEM tires, so those are obviously just built for the sake of selling in the aftermarket. For tires like goodyear assurance, Michellin's green X tires, etc. which are fairly targeted towards the OEMs, however, this IS true, whether you like to believe it or not.

Either way, there's no reason to keep arguing. Hopefully the OP can figure out what's wrong with his car, whether its alignment or tires. Good luck!

 

I figured out the problem guy....it's one of the tire that is bad, got a new one and an alignment and it drives perfectly. Thank you to all for all the inputs and the help. Lot of appreciation.