LOLZ, Idk about your math, but the piston volume of the wildwood I linked is 2596.13mm^2 (its actually 2,606.446 if convert the 4.04in to mm) per side. And the stock brembo is 2,918.54. How is that increasing the bias with 300mm less piston area?

Also, you should have some sort of bias adjustment on the car going with a new brake setup anyways..

sheesh

 

Difference is i'm already using mine. Lets see how long before you can say the same.
I can certainly respect your emphasis on brake bias but what i've done to address that is by running a sticker pad in the back.
While I realize theres no way to calculate that without some serious equipment... It will be more of a seat time and weight transfer issue to get trail braking dialed in imo.
If you feel up to it i'd love to see how badly your calcs will make my alcon's front only designed for the evo MC looks compared to your 1.6%

 

You are right letsgetthisdone, i didnt do the math on the pistons as i was never going to use them and i was tossing out piston sizing to make a point and saw the 41 and assumed it was going to end up more then the OEM. But you are right, i was using insufficient data, making the wrong point in the end. I wrote that running out the door and for that i apologize.

Even the ones i am using are smaller in piston surface area and land between those wilwoods and OEM, but the pads are massive. So are you are telling my your bias hasnet changed because you are using the prepositionally sized pad to match OEM piston/pad combo? I know you cant tell me you bought new calipers and the bias hasnet changed to front or then why bother getting new calipers? You are saying get these because you have more front braking hence bias has changed forward. You cant argue with me on that point. If it has more front braking, the bias is forward and the car is diving more.

Why do i need bias adjustment? If the OEM setup is the norm, and i like how the car currently drives as fits the driving style, then why would i change it? Mitsu didnt chose that bias setup lightly. Sure with down force changed and suspension changes the bias needs to be tweaked. Hence why race cars have bias adjusters. Right now the car works for me and i dont want to mess with it. Maybe one day as i change more i will want/need to, but for now i want to keep it around OEM and then i can change it from there. Let alone the larger picture was trying to help other people put this on their car, I needed to keep the baseline close to OEM for everyone's sake.

and Grimgrak
It will take me, what, 1 extra day to make a bracket, not a big deal. I have the means to do it quickly and easily. Moot point in my mind. I will take that 1 day of my time and $ for materials and save myself the $2000 on the fronts alone. Worth the money and the proper biasing. Dont get me wrong i would love to go out and buy a set of Alcons all the way around. But i will take my setup for the cost savings and the parts/pad availability at any shop for my calipers. These are mass produced calipers for many OEM vehicles, parts are cheap and plenty. Alcons are sick, but these Brembos are no slouch, not by a long shot, and could still be better. I dont have the data to prove Alcons vs Brembos haha.
Putting a sicker pad on the rear is a band aid and a complete guess at it too. If its in fact "sticker" then the bite is different and it can/will unsettle the car. Its a guessing game really. it could work to some extent but really its not the proper way to go about things.

Man so much hate on this forum for a guy trying to find a low cost and proper brake upgrade. Forgive me for even making this thread, i guess i should have kept this to myself. Good luck to you guys on your endeavors.

 

Yes, it would still end up with more front bias. But as I've said, I think the front could do more on these cars. I've driven a 9 with just an upgrade to X brakes in the front, and it felt very good. It was much better at using the brakes to plant the front of car (especially when trail braking). This could be a difference in our driving styles.

My offroad car on the other hand has the same size brakes all the way around, with a 1" master for the front, and a 7/8 master for the rear. I can set the bias to lock the rear pretty easy for twisty sections, and dial it out to be more even when I don't need to back it in to tight corners.

I wasn't hating, the couple 18z calipers I found were $800 for a pair. And i thought your were only trying to upgrade the front. So, I was providing what I thought was a better alternative. Which, for just a front upgrade, I still think it would be better, than any of the OE brembo stuff..

 

I see you point but remember i was trying to make a kit for the masses so leaving its OEM characteristics the same was one of the things to check off the list. that meant maintaining OEM Bias.

Also this the front of my car looking like this.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.n...71441291_o.jpg

the added down force helps plant the front as it is. so i was not chasing after more front bias for myself either.

That all being said if some one wanted to venture a way to increase the size of the rear disc, that can also move the bias forward in the pit i am putting together. I can see you point with the 18z, but honestly the 18z is not as good as the caliper i am going to use. its alot lighter and in alot of high high HP and heavy car OEM applications right now. Also the fully set front and rear can be had new for $850. Brackets are going to be a must but i think i can get it to work. Just how much work is the question. Might take some welding and grinding and a re-drill to get a bracket to work better or a simple bracket will do it. Calipers on order and still trying to chase down some EvoX rotors for cheap to test with.

 

I am down to design a CAD model for the bracket. This way it can be 3D printed and you can test fitment with it. All I need are measurements for the spacing of the caliper bolts and the radius of the rotor to caliper.

I am thinking its an angle bracket design at the moment. I would also like to run 6/4 piston mono block calipers. I know there was a guy that tried to use the CTSV 6 piston mono block caliper but it only works with 18 inch rims because the rotor needed was way bigger.

 

These will be 18inch wheel only as well.

Anything with a 350mm disc will require 18inch wheels. This is why the OEM size was 326mm and the 17z caliper was 330mm disc. BBK means 18inch wheel

 

The only "aero" my car has is a duck bill deck lid. Taking the rear wing (and rear downforce) off the car really help helped balance it and reduce understand in high speed sweepers.

What calipers are you using? The 6/4 setup from the new ctsv's and Camaro zl1's?

 

but taking the OEM wing off to help fix under-steer you are actually effectively taking away grip.
This is why so many people use a heavier rear sway bar as their first mod to solve that issue. Not saying the OEM wing does a huge amount of down force, but everything helps. Any why people who get big *** wings complain of more under steer, because they didnt balance the car out and add a front splitter.

I think if you worked on the car's overall grip then you might also notice a change in bias towards the front and move towards over steer. My first mods where sway bar and poly bushings in the rear and that alone got the car far more balanced. granted there is always the argument about a heaver sway taking away grip vs it reducing roll and blah blah. but we will ignore that for argument's sake. I have the 3 degree PSRS going in next which should further add to the front grip levels. I dont know what would happen if i also got the max locker rear diff too. Once again reason why i want to keep OEM bias.

I havent tracked the car with the new aero setup, but spirited driving around some local mountain roads and i did get the back end to hang out. So like i said i would work toward adding front grip, not taking away rear grip. That will help fix under-steer, add front grip and in turn move your biasing forward and then you will see why i was personally shooting for OEM bias levels.

that all being said you might have already taking action to tighten up the rear with sways and other mods, but nutshell, try to not take away grip, find ways to add it where you need it.

 

A stiffer sway bar also takes away grip, so removing downforce does the same. I got the idea from formula one. They used to be able to only adjust the front wing during the race, and if the car was oversteering, they would take away front down force to balance the car's grip front to rear. While its obviously a huge compromise, it does make the car more stable. I did not want to do a rear sway bar because I like the amount of throttle lift oversteer the car has with the stock sways in medium to lower speed corners, and did not want to change that.


My car is stock sways, stance coilovers with 9k ft 11k rr springs, whiteline roll center correction, and TRE max lock rear diff. Alignment is -2.5 front, -1.5 rear camber, and 0 toe. I think caster is around +4.5, not adjustable. I had TRE put a wavetrac in my tcase for the front diff while he has my trans, so I can't wait to try that out. I have a perrin PSRS, whiteline rear bump steer, and poly rear trailing arm bushings waiting to go in.


I'll probably do it soon, I just barely have time right now. I wish I did, because the car is currently apart waiting for the trans to come back from TRE.

 

I said the thing about the sway bar but didnt want to get into the debate on how it does it. Remember it also reduces roll. so it does more then just "take away grip" but like i said lets not get into sway bar theory.

when you get that other stuff in your going to want your wing back. and if you still under steer then there seems to be something very wrong haha. Hell the max locker should of make a giant difference.

 

The rear diff did make a huge difference. Its constant throttle where the car will start to push. At WOT, or throttle lift, it rotates nicely.