Help on geometry settings...
Nov 13, 2001, 05:06 AM
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Help on geometry settings...
Hiya guys (US and ex-MLR 
),
As the MLR guys are aware, I had a minor run-in with a metal barrier in my Evo 6 last week, so while it's in the bodyshop getting fixed I thought I'd ask - what suspension/geometry settings would you guys recommend to help clear the pronounced tramlining and bumpsteer associated with the stock VI GSR?
It was something I was looking at doing anyway (as a "new to performance cars" driver it's a little unnerving having the car fight you over our bumpy British roads), and I suppose this is a good excuse to get the work done to it...
Thanks in advance for your help
Derek
),As the MLR guys are aware, I had a minor run-in with a metal barrier in my Evo 6 last week, so while it's in the bodyshop getting fixed I thought I'd ask - what suspension/geometry settings would you guys recommend to help clear the pronounced tramlining and bumpsteer associated with the stock VI GSR?
It was something I was looking at doing anyway (as a "new to performance cars" driver it's a little unnerving having the car fight you over our bumpy British roads), and I suppose this is a good excuse to get the work done to it...
Thanks in advance for your help
Derek
Nov 13, 2001, 06:03 AM
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To get lessen the tramlining, you have to sacrifice grip. Run less camber than you did before, try about 1 degree at the front and 0.5 in the back. You'll really lose a lot of grip and I think it'll be impossible to completely get rid of tramlining in an Evo...
Nov 13, 2001, 07:42 AM
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Hmmm... I guess suspension would make more of a difference then (esp. replacing it with a quality aftermarket set).
If it'll make that much difference to the cornering characteristics, I may just leave it well enough alone and learn to live with it
Derek
If it'll make that much difference to the cornering characteristics, I may just leave it well enough alone and learn to live with it
Derek
Nov 13, 2001, 07:50 AM
#4
Numpty,
I think that after a spin last week for you and 3 weeks ago for my other half, we need all of the grip we can get and sacrificing it would be the last thing we need to do 
Andy
I think that after a spin last week for you and 3 weeks ago for my other half, we need all of the grip we can get
and sacrificing it would be the last thing we need to do Andy
Nov 13, 2001, 09:18 AM
#5
From my experiences toe can also play an important role as well as the type of tires that you are using. Ultra high performance tires tend to follow dips in the road A LOT Too much toe in and you'll get sluggish responses from steering input... not to mention tire wear (*cough* NSX *cough*). For racing you usually lean more towards toe out for the front and toe in for the rear. Too much toe out and the car will go all over the place. I think you may have to ask yourself whether it's worth giving up the handling characteristics of your Evo for a nicer ride........ and that answer will be no 
What are the factory specs for the Evo?
Mark
Too much toe in and you'll get sluggish responses from steering input... not to mention tire wear (*cough* NSX *cough*). For racing you usually lean more towards toe out for the front and toe in for the rear. Too much toe out and the car will go all over the place. I think you may have to ask yourself whether it's worth giving up the handling characteristics of your Evo for a nicer ride........ and that answer will be no What are the factory specs for the Evo?
Mark
Nov 13, 2001, 10:17 AM
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Heh, I already have a Passat TDi for that "spongy, steers-like-a-cow" feeling (even after putting on 17x7J's shod with 225/45 rubber and some slightly stiffer/lower springs), and my brothers old Jaguar 3.2 floats like a boat over even the bumpiest road over here
Standard settings... 2degree camber front, 1degree rear I think, and (not sure) zero toe. Coupled with street-racer tight suspension as standard... the cornering is phenomenal (unless you hit ice unexpectedly like I did) but it can be like a living thing over bumpy roads, as the steering wheel tries to change direction on you. Tires are the standard Potenza S01's (great dry, poor wet) which I was looking at changing to some good wet weather ones, given the winter weather over here.
You just need a firm hand to tame it, but if a small change in settings could have helped it would've been nice. I don't want to start sacrificing traction though, otherwise I may as well stick with the Passat (you're right about that, I couldn't give up the Evo... unless someone wanted to swap for a low mileage R34 running 800bhp ).
Regarding toe... I've seen the options on GT3, but have little idea what it actually does to the handling. Is toe-in where you make the wheels go /--\ and out is \--/ ? If anyone knows of a good web resource on this (theory, pros, cons etc) I'd be grateful for a pointer, or mail me offline.
Derek
Standard settings... 2degree camber front, 1degree rear I think, and (not sure) zero toe. Coupled with street-racer tight suspension as standard... the cornering is phenomenal (unless you hit ice unexpectedly like I did) but it can be like a living thing over bumpy roads, as the steering wheel tries to change direction on you. Tires are the standard Potenza S01's (great dry, poor wet) which I was looking at changing to some good wet weather ones, given the winter weather over here.
You just need a firm hand to tame it, but if a small change in settings could have helped it would've been nice. I don't want to start sacrificing traction though, otherwise I may as well stick with the Passat
(you're right about that, I couldn't give up the Evo... unless someone wanted to swap for a low mileage R34 running 800bhp ).Regarding toe... I've seen the options on GT3, but have little idea what it actually does to the handling. Is toe-in where you make the wheels go /--\ and out is \--/ ? If anyone knows of a good web resource on this (theory, pros, cons etc) I'd be grateful for a pointer, or mail me offline.
Derek
Nov 13, 2001, 10:25 AM
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Nov 13, 2001, 11:34 AM
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Numpty
Suspension could make a difference. I have adjustable dampers on my 6 and run a medium setting for everyday use. The car tramlines noticeably less than on hard settings, but the main difference is the way it rides the bumps particularly in mid-corner when driving hard.
You do trade off utimate grip though and also intial bite when turning in to a corner is less, but grip is not so great when the wheels are leaving the ground at every bump! Don't you love UK roads.....
Dave
Suspension could make a difference. I have adjustable dampers on my 6 and run a medium setting for everyday use. The car tramlines noticeably less than on hard settings, but the main difference is the way it rides the bumps particularly in mid-corner when driving hard.
You do trade off utimate grip though and also intial bite when turning in to a corner is less, but grip is not so great when the wheels are leaving the ground at every bump! Don't you love UK roads.....
Dave
Last edited by Daveg; Nov 13, 2001 at 11:37 AM.
Nov 13, 2001, 03:18 PM
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Nov 15, 2001, 04:29 PM
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Geometry Settings
Running
front camber: 3 dg
rear camber 0,5 dg
front toe out 1 dg \--/
rear 0 dg
If you put toe out in the back, the car will oversteer like mad, if you put too much camber it will oversteer abruptly, if you do not run enough camber in the front (which most people dont) then you will get understeer.
Running
front camber: 3 dg
rear camber 0,5 dg
front toe out 1 dg \--/
rear 0 dg
If you put toe out in the back, the car will oversteer like mad, if you put too much camber it will oversteer abruptly, if you do not run enough camber in the front (which most people dont) then you will get understeer.
Nov 16, 2001, 12:08 PM
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Mine:
Front camber 3 deg
Rear camber 2 deg
Can't remember the toe settings.
Note, you cannot get more than 2 deg with standard shockers
Not sure what the max rear camber possible with standard shocks is.
Don't forget there is an adjustable bolt at the front to let you switch between 1 and 2 degree camber quickly, for track use.
On a road car, 2 deg or more front camber is a lot, and will **** tyres quickly!
Front camber 3 deg
Rear camber 2 deg
Can't remember the toe settings.
Note, you cannot get more than 2 deg with standard shockers
Not sure what the max rear camber possible with standard shocks is.
Don't forget there is an adjustable bolt at the front to let you switch between 1 and 2 degree camber quickly, for track use.
On a road car, 2 deg or more front camber is a lot, and will **** tyres quickly!
Nov 16, 2001, 06:11 PM
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Well Tony, I run 3 dg front camber and the tires are shagged as you say, but on the OUTSIDES! Obviously, I would not recommend 3 dg front camber for going straight (ie USA use )
Just changed my suspension setup, it's the cat's ***, the dogs bollocks or whatever you say in the UK. Absorbs even HUGE bumps but roll is inexistent, it increases cornering speeds by at least 10%. Guess what they are, I am sure you dont know.
)Just changed my suspension setup, it's the cat's ***, the dogs bollocks or whatever you say in the UK. Absorbs even HUGE bumps but roll is inexistent, it increases cornering speeds by at least 10%. Guess what they are, I am sure you dont know.
