Mustang vs DynoJet comparo
Mar 7, 2011, 11:31 AM
#32
a way i see it, get a base number and the results. Then get a % of your gain , that is your achievement or failure to pick the right parts and the tuner. The numbers which is a higher i care less, the main thing is the gain that is where you should focus. Sure the gain number will be higher on the dyno jet vs the mustang but a gain % should be a same.
Rob
Rob
Mar 7, 2011, 01:48 PM
#33
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly, Jersey
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just out of curiosity, do you keep a static value for all EVO X in the weight and HP @50? for example 3850lbs and 14.7 HP(not the race cars...just customer or daily driven cars)? I agree, there can be a very wide spread if the weights...vehicle and roller... are not consistent from car to car of the same make and model. This can be compounded with a weather station correction if the dyno room has large ambient temp changes.
Regards.
John
Regards.
John
Last edited by PeteyTurbo@KHC; Mar 7, 2011 at 01:59 PM.
Mar 7, 2011, 01:54 PM
#34
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly, Jersey
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also it is not fair on any level to comare inertia dyno figures to mustang eddy current figures.. Why? Because no shop on these forums spends the money for an AC motor option to do true coastdown and parasitic loss checks and tests. But I for one don't blame them, there is no need to cater to another dyno to get cool hp numbers unless you are planning on doing epa or carb certs. Also, a vehicle tuned on a dynojet, FOR a dynojet, can easily stray off the tuned path the vehicle would normally see on the street or properly setup eddy current dyno. kthxbai.
Mar 7, 2011, 01:58 PM
#35
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly, Jersey
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is actually a good comparison. The MD and DJ numbers would have been quite a bit different if you were comparing the SAE Corrected numbers(DJ) to the MD numbers. Should the DJ graph be output in SAE CF, you would have, in all probability, seen a larger difference. Keep in mind the Trace Graph View(MD) as seen here reflects some filter or 'smoothing' and displays the 'corrected number'(this is what we all post as MD owners). We do not know what the correction factor was that was calculated before this graph was output.. if there was one at all.
Lowkey asked how roller weight would effect numbers. This is not related to strapping the car down with more force, rather the MD uses a value in the Dyno Calibration screen called Roller Weight. This value is set from MD for your particular dyno. Should you raise this number, it will artificially raise the entire curve. MD uses this vale to calculate the final output...this is a singular value used in conjunction with other set up values....too involved to go into in a post.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.
john
Lowkey asked how roller weight would effect numbers. This is not related to strapping the car down with more force, rather the MD uses a value in the Dyno Calibration screen called Roller Weight. This value is set from MD for your particular dyno. Should you raise this number, it will artificially raise the entire curve. MD uses this vale to calculate the final output...this is a singular value used in conjunction with other set up values....too involved to go into in a post.
Hope this clarifies things a bit.
john
Mar 7, 2011, 06:51 PM
#38
Newbie
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Gastonia, NC
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the only way to compare #'s is to have all the dyno's next to each other and to move the car to each dyno one after another after letting the car cool down for the same amount of time
dynos are mainly used for tuning
if you want to show big #'s get on a dynojet in the winter!!!
the best dyno for tuning (my opinion) is dynodynamics
dynos are mainly used for tuning
if you want to show big #'s get on a dynojet in the winter!!!
the best dyno for tuning (my opinion) is dynodynamics
Mar 7, 2011, 07:23 PM
#39
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Tri State
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Also it is not fair on any level to comare inertia dyno figures to mustang eddy current figures.. Why? Because no shop on these forums spends the money for an AC motor option to do true coastdown and parasitic loss checks and tests. But I for one don't blame them, there is no need to cater to another dyno to get cool hp numbers unless you are planning on doing epa or carb certs. Also, a vehicle tuned on a dynojet, FOR a dynojet, can easily stray off the tuned path the vehicle would normally see on the street or properly setup eddy current dyno. kthxbai"
I would disagree from this point to an extent. If you compare the % change from baseline to tuned from the DJ to the % change (baseline to tuned) on the MD on the same car, fuel, tune, ambient, etc.. It should be close from dyno to dyno if both are properly calibrated. All tunes should be verified in real world conditions as well. ie. road. There are some cars that you may know the outcome, but it 'should' be verified. When running a stand-alone ems utilizing speed density, this becomes even more apparent.
Anyway, they are both tuning tools and should be used as such...I think most agree with this assertion as well.
Cheers!
john
Mar 8, 2011, 10:47 AM
#40
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly, Jersey
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Roller weight yes, vehicle weight no..Vehicle weight will not change power T, however it may increase torque on a turbocharged vehicle.
I use multiple versions of mustang software on 6 different mustang chassis dynos and they all display corrected power as power t wc.. Most likely you have it set to default to uncorrected, you can change this in the channels to display menu and then double click the axis name and change it. I've never seen any MD software not work this way.
I mentioned comaring vehicles tuned FOR a dynojet, not just ON a dynojet. Load curves will vary and if cell data does not match for the different points the comparison is not worth doing, especially if you are looking for a high degree of accuracy. Just my opinion.
I use multiple versions of mustang software on 6 different mustang chassis dynos and they all display corrected power as power t wc.. Most likely you have it set to default to uncorrected, you can change this in the channels to display menu and then double click the axis name and change it. I've never seen any MD software not work this way.
I mentioned comaring vehicles tuned FOR a dynojet, not just ON a dynojet. Load curves will vary and if cell data does not match for the different points the comparison is not worth doing, especially if you are looking for a high degree of accuracy. Just my opinion.
Actually you are incorrect. The roller weight and vehicle weight can have an effect on HP numbers. I am not sure what version software you are running, but the numbers on my Mustang will never show 'Power t wc' in the 'Power Curve'-'View Trace' screen. You can also effect numbers with the weather station parameters. I do agree that you should not touch the roller weight calibration parameter on the MD.
"Also it is not fair on any level to comare inertia dyno figures to mustang eddy current figures.. Why? Because no shop on these forums spends the money for an AC motor option to do true coastdown and parasitic loss checks and tests. But I for one don't blame them, there is no need to cater to another dyno to get cool hp numbers unless you are planning on doing epa or carb certs. Also, a vehicle tuned on a dynojet, FOR a dynojet, can easily stray off the tuned path the vehicle would normally see on the street or properly setup eddy current dyno. kthxbai"
I would disagree from this point to an extent. If you compare the % change from baseline to tuned from the DJ to the % change (baseline to tuned) on the MD on the same car, fuel, tune, ambient, etc.. It should be close from dyno to dyno if both are properly calibrated. All tunes should be verified in real world conditions as well. ie. road. There are some cars that you may know the outcome, but it 'should' be verified. When running a stand-alone ems utilizing speed density, this becomes even more apparent.
Anyway, they are both tuning tools and should be used as such...I think most agree with this assertion as well.
Cheers!
john
"Also it is not fair on any level to comare inertia dyno figures to mustang eddy current figures.. Why? Because no shop on these forums spends the money for an AC motor option to do true coastdown and parasitic loss checks and tests. But I for one don't blame them, there is no need to cater to another dyno to get cool hp numbers unless you are planning on doing epa or carb certs. Also, a vehicle tuned on a dynojet, FOR a dynojet, can easily stray off the tuned path the vehicle would normally see on the street or properly setup eddy current dyno. kthxbai"
I would disagree from this point to an extent. If you compare the % change from baseline to tuned from the DJ to the % change (baseline to tuned) on the MD on the same car, fuel, tune, ambient, etc.. It should be close from dyno to dyno if both are properly calibrated. All tunes should be verified in real world conditions as well. ie. road. There are some cars that you may know the outcome, but it 'should' be verified. When running a stand-alone ems utilizing speed density, this becomes even more apparent.
Anyway, they are both tuning tools and should be used as such...I think most agree with this assertion as well.
Cheers!
john
Mar 8, 2011, 11:05 AM
#41
You can crank it up to the point where the car will start holding an RPM instead of sweeping through it. I don't recommend this as it puts tremendous stress on the drivetrain.
Mar 8, 2011, 11:40 AM
#42
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly, Jersey
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vehicle weight is for the drag (resistance) simulation on power pulls, etc. Crank the weight up and watch the car struggle to complete the pull the higher the MPH. You will also see this in the curve where it starts struggling.
You can crank it up to the point where the car will start holding an RPM instead of sweeping through it. I don't recommend this as it puts tremendous stress on the drivetrain.
You can crank it up to the point where the car will start holding an RPM instead of sweeping through it. I don't recommend this as it puts tremendous stress on the drivetrain.
This reminds me of the time I saw a sentra with a turbo kit and no other mods do a pull in 4th gear and hold 5k rpms and not complete the test window for a whopping 90 horsepower.
Last edited by PeteyTurbo@KHC; Mar 8, 2011 at 11:43 AM.
Mar 8, 2011, 09:24 PM
#43
Also changing the roller synch, example, synching it at 2500 when you selected 3000 will change the power curves. You can create awesome spool that way, totally artificial of course.
Mar 8, 2011, 09:51 PM
#44
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly, Jersey
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It will indirectly when there is so much resistance the motor is stressed. The curve gets pulled down towards zero horsepower, try it some time on a car you don't care about.
Also changing the roller synch, example, synching it at 2500 when you selected 3000 will change the power curves. You can create awesome spool that way, totally artificial of course.
Also changing the roller synch, example, synching it at 2500 when you selected 3000 will change the power curves. You can create awesome spool that way, totally artificial of course.
Here is an example where I had to make a custom loading curve coefficient for a 50,000lb bus on a dyno that maxes out at 40,000. Turns out the dyno can do 50k just fine so long as the pau's are not glowing for too long. All of this is done editing the .ini file. This dyno reads very accurately because all of the coastdown tests are done on a monthly basis using a 60hp AC motor control system integrated into the powerdyne software, so it does not fall under the low reading mustang category. In other words all power robbing resistance is accounted for.
Here is a pics of a bus on the dyno. Aerosmith tour bus circa 1980
And the snail residing within (gt42 I believe on a 2-stroke detroit V8) This bus will do close to 100mph surprisingly.
Last edited by PeteyTurbo@KHC; Mar 8, 2011 at 09:54 PM.
Mar 8, 2011, 10:07 PM
#45
lol at bus!
I'm confused on how the torque curve changes but you say horsepower curve will not?
Just last month I was doing a bunch of testing on my RA and the horsepower curve changes with the torque curve, just like I imagined since it's a calculation off it.
I'm confused on how the torque curve changes but you say horsepower curve will not?
Just last month I was doing a bunch of testing on my RA and the horsepower curve changes with the torque curve, just like I imagined since it's a calculation off it.