JDMEvo9RS- oviously from myself also "lurking around" TTP "rocks your socks" and are "the best tuners in galaxy" 1 turbo from a zchip owner is already gone, what i did was offer a test car so turbos blowing wouldnt happen. I would sometimes maybe remind them and talked good about them because "100whp" seemed so good for oviously the ammount they claimed. I dont want to start anything with you but think before posting stupidity. sorry for the offtopic, but i guess lets keep this for dyno sheets and/or scheduling a dyno day, i am eager to see the results, you never know the zchip can impress us, you never know

 

AP tuned in Dallas Dec. 12th.

 

Your post is very to the point

For example, saying that one brand of screw driver is better than the other.

A tuning TOOL is a device used to make adjustments to the way a car runs.

No one should confuse the TOOL used to the changes made. I hope this very critical distinction is grasped by anyone reading this.

The first issue that anyone making an inteligent observation on any tuning device is to determine what kind of device you are dealing with.

Modern cars work with EFI units which work in compliance with OBDII and they suprizingly share a lot of common features due to the legislative resources of the CARB. An ecu is bascially a microprocessor which gathers input signals from various sources (e.g. crank position sensor, air flow meter, MAP - pressure - sensor, etc). The program in the ecu directs how the outputs (e.g. spark and injector on time etc) will function. Very basic system.

There are essentially 3 ways to "tune" or change the way a Evo X runs.

The first method is by INTERCEPTING or MANIPULATING the input signals to get the ecu unit to react in different ways. For example, generally lowering the MAP signal (boost or pressure) which is a 0 - 5 volt sensor will result in the ecu providing less injector on time and more ignition. Changing other signals going into the ecu such as crank position sensor can have an effect on timing. Generally an interceptor type device is easy to install and make adjustments but somewhat limited in what you can adjust and often involves having to make trade offs and compromises in order to achieve the desired result.

The Second Method is with a reflash device - there are serveal already available such as Ecutek or Cobb which make tuning changes by telling the ecu how to react to the inputs by changing the look up tables. For example you can change the a/f target at 4,500 rpms and a load of "X" by directly adding or subtracting to the fuel table. You can also rescale the injectors. There are lots of things you can do and most of the changes you make will not have unintended effects on other aspects of ecu operation.

The Third Method involves removing the stock ecu and installing a motorsports ecu such as an autronic or hydra ems. This type of soulution is generally more well suited to a track only race application.

My point is comparing these approaches to ecu adjustment is to say that each method of adjustment has its own advantages and disadvantages.

ALL of the methods can effect WHP and can be used to effect power delivery.

I would have thought that anyone with an understanding of how these tuning tools operate would agree that a reflash is the more effective method to adjust the stock ecu. However, it would be foolosh to assume that an interceptor device could not make the same power with the same boost, a.f and timing outputs.

To sumarize, it is important to distinquish between the TOOL used to tune a car and the TUNING style and approach used.

Al

 

stock X with ecuteck tune /bone stock/ runs 12.5 /4/ and 110 mph + .
So there is one number for you guys to chew it on.
There is no dyno calibration or type argument there.
cheers Rob

 

AL! I prefer MoTEc
never did let me down

 

i never heard such a thing as a stupid test. Every test is good for something

But in this case , the idea is very legit. Fact , it is interesting

if any one have a cat back and the drop in + zchip. /no boost controler/ in NJ.
i'm up for the comparision to help to the community.
I'm willing to drive 150 miles if it needs too.
Rob

 

its not enough to compare 2 evos with exact mods on same dyno, the best comaprison is the SAME car, same dyno, same day, ecutek v. zchip.

you can then compare peak numbers, graph curves and tan unbiased owner would have to take car for a drive and see how it feels smoothness, accelaration, etc.

this still would not be a perfect comparison but a relatively fair one,

it would be even better if that same driver say had a chance to take car to drag and do few pulls on car and see what #s are attained there.

but thats a lot to ask for

other than that, you started a thread that will end up in a ditch

 

I'm down....I have a base z-chip map that has not been altered and my car is stock. I'm in AL. I don't mind doing this but I refuse to pay for the dyno time

 

Not true, I have seen as much as 20whp variation from car to car on the same dyno. Not to mention the fact that unless the two cars have IDENTICAL mods there is no way to do a direct baseline comparison.

 

1 car, 2 tests is the only way to do a fair back to back comparison.

If your going to use 2 cars you adding in 1 more variable to the equation if you ask me.

I think it is a good idea to do a comparison, but not like this. Plus, trap speeds will always give you the real world results your looking for. If a zchip car traps 112 and a ectutek tuned car traps 112, what difference do you expect to see on the dyno?

I also think it is pretty lame to say TTP dyno reads high. That could be considered slanderish and pose negitive results on TTP's business. Unless you have first hand proof, your claim is pretty much hear say unfortunately.

 

i would like to see this test as well.

i was about to buy the z-chip when ttp told me that with the mods that i have on my car i would only gain about 30-40 AWHP so i would like to see the difference between the ecuflash and the z-chip

 

This.

 

+1, problem is though once and ecutek license is flashed into the ecu, that license is gone and cannot be "recovered" so not only would you need an owner willing to buy a zchip and an ecutek tune, but also a dyno shop willing to do the comparison for free.

 

Yep. Both the z-chip and Ecutek have yielded good/similar results. To perform such a "test", with all the hassle and complications that would be involved, it doesn't justify for it. People just need to research and pick what they want to go with.

 

Only thing I am confused with is how you say TTP's dyno gives inaccurate gains. You said high at first but then you said it show's higher gains as well. It's one thing for a dyno to read slightly higher than another, but they are advertising whp gain, which is going off of a baseline. So unless their dyno just doesn't work, the idea of providing a baseline is to prevent this sort of argument, that their dyno reads high, am I not correct?