Getting Best MPG during Cruise

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Sep 8, 2009 | 05:18 AM

#91

coevolve

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From: Northern VA

Here's a snapshot of a quick log. My car really likes 65-70mph. I've definitely noticed an increase in mpg there...

Code:

TPS	RPM   Timing	Spd	IPW	Load

10.12	3335.94	44	70.56	2.87	35
10.12	3335.94	44	70.56	2.77	34.69
10.12	3332.03	44	70.56	2.88	34.06
10.12	3332.03	44	70.56	2.74	33.75
9.61	3335.94	44	70.56	2.82	33.13
9.61	3332.03	44	70.56	2.7	32.81
9.61	3335.94	44	70.56	2.85	32.81
9.61	3332.03	44	70.56	2.78	33.13
9.61	3332.03	44	70.56	2.69	32.81
9.61	3332.03	44	70.56	2.78	33.13
9.61	3332.03	44	70.56	2.73	33.13
9.61	3332.03	44	70.56	2.78	32.19
9.61	3328.13	44	70.56	2.7	32.5
9.61	3332.03	44	70.56	2.78	31.56
9.61	3328.13	44	70.56	2.74	32.19
9.61	3328.13	44	70.56	2.7	32.19
9.61	3328.13	44	70.56	2.72	32.5
9.61	3332.03	44	70.56	2.82	32.19
9.61	3328.13	44	70.56	2.7	32.81
9.61	3328.13	44	70.56	2.78	32.19
9.61	3332.03	44	70.56	2.81	32.5
10.12	3324.22	44	70.56	2.94	33.75
10.12	3335.94	44	70.56	2.86	34.38
10.12	3328.13	44	70.56	2.89	35
10.62	3324.22	44	70.56	3.03	35.63
10.62	3324.22	44	70.56	2.9	35.94
10.62	3324.22	44	70.56	3.05	36.25
10.62	3324.22	44	70.56	2.97	36.56
10.62	3320.31	44	70.56	3.04	36.56
10.62	3320.31	44	70.56	3	36.88
10.62	3320.31	44	70.56	3.05	36.88
10.62	3320.31	44	70.56	3.07	36.88
10.62	3312.5	44	70.56	2.93	37.5
10.62	3316.41	44	70.56	3.18	36.88
11.13	3312.5	44	70.56	3.1	38.44
11.13	3312.5	43	70.56	3.1	39.06
11.13	3312.5	44	70.56	3.05	38.75
11.13	3320.31	43	70.56	3.18	39.38
11.13	3316.41	43	70.56	3.1	39.38

Last edited by coevolve; Sep 8, 2009 at 05:23 AM.

Sep 8, 2009 | 05:32 AM

#92

Hiboost

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From: Rochester, NY

Quote:

Originally Posted by coevolve

Here's a snapshot of a quick log. My car really likes 65-70mph. I've definitely noticed an increase in mpg there...

Nice! What mods do you currently have on your car?

I thing the people that will get the biggest gains are those that have the mods to allow their car to cruise at 65-70 mph at 35-40% load. If you end up in higher load cells the differences seem to be much less obvious even with 1-3* timing increases.

Last edited by Hiboost; Sep 8, 2009 at 05:35 AM.

Sep 8, 2009 | 05:33 AM

#93

Hiboost

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From: Rochester, NY

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methodical4u

I thought of going of increasing to 50-60 load 3*... I wonder if that would be safe.

Carefull since the maps I posted are already 1-3* higher than stock maps which I think would be the limits without thorough testing.

Sep 8, 2009 | 07:03 AM

#94

coevolve

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From: Northern VA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiboost

bone stock haha

Sep 8, 2009 | 11:40 AM

#95

Hiboost

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Quote:

Originally Posted by coevolve

bone stock haha

That's so wonky that some people can cruise at 35-40% load while others can't manage better than 50-60%.

Sep 9, 2009 | 05:15 AM

#96

coevolve

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From: Northern VA

I made a few more changes to my BTEL and MIVEC I/E maps off of nj1266 suggestions...

It's purely driver observation but the car seems to maintain speed even easier now (cruise control etc). I logged a steady slight long hill (up 3-5* down 4-5*) followed by a long straight on the way home yesterday. I'll post it up later on today....

Sep 9, 2009 | 12:39 PM

#97

coevolve

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From: Northern VA

Here's a pretty comprehensive look at the log I describe above:
(I was steadily showing ~25-30mpg on the way to work this a.m. ~70* ambient)
0 knock and 14.7 AFR across the board

Sorry for the size but you can definitely see how a hill affects load (significant drop to 28% load in the middle where the hill flattens out)

Code:

TPS	Speed	RPM	Load	Timing  IPW
15.18	70.56	3285	54.06	38.00	3.95
15.18	70.56	3289	56.88	37.00	3.94
15.68	70.56	3293	60.31	36.00	3.98
15.68	70.56	3297	62.19	35.00	4.37
16.19	70.56	3301	67.19	34.00	4.34
16.69	70.56	3313	70.63	33.00	4.53
16.69	70.56	3313	72.50	32.00	4.76
16.19	70.56	3324	72.81	32.00	4.17
15.68	70.56	3324	66.25	34.00	4.42
15.18	70.56	3336	66.25	34.00	4.25
15.18	70.56	3336	65.31	34.00	4.32
15.68	71.82	3348	66.25	34.00	4.09
15.18	71.82	3348	64.06	35.00	3.90
12.65	71.82	3352	55.00	38.00	3.42
12.65	71.82	3348	47.50	41.00	3.62
13.15	71.82	3348	48.13	41.00	3.58
13.15	71.82	3344	49.06	40.00	3.53
13.15	71.82	3340	49.38	40.00	3.62
13.15	70.56	3332	49.69	40.00	3.66
13.66	70.56	3336	52.19	39.00	3.54
13.66	70.56	3328	52.50	39.00	3.73
13.66	70.56	3332	52.81	39.00	3.61
13.66	70.56	3324	53.75	38.00	3.72
13.66	70.56	3324	52.81	39.00	3.73
13.66	70.56	3324	52.81	39.00	3.66
13.15	70.56	3328	52.19	39.00	3.79
13.66	70.56	3324	53.44	38.00	3.70
13.66	70.56	3320	53.75	38.00	3.91
14.16	70.56	3320	55.63	38.00	3.74
14.16	70.56	3320	54.06	38.00	3.73
13.66	70.56	3320	53.75	38.00	3.80
14.16	70.56	3324	56.25	37.00	3.96
13.66	70.56	3320	55.94	38.00	3.65
13.15	70.56	3320	52.19	39.00	3.58
12.65	70.56	3320	49.38	40.00	3.32
12.65	70.56	3320	46.88	41.00	3.50
12.65	70.56	3316	47.19	41.00	3.55
12.65	70.56	3309	48.75	40.00	3.49
12.65	70.56	3309	47.19	41.00	3.38
12.65	70.56	3309	47.19	41.00	3.56
13.15	70.56	3313	48.75	40.00	3.59
13.15	70.56	3309	49.38	40.00	3.68
13.66	70.56	3305	50.94	39.00	3.67
13.66	70.56	3305	52.50	39.00	3.64
13.66	70.56	3301	53.13	39.00	3.65
13.66	70.56	3297	52.81	39.00	3.72
13.66	70.56	3301	53.44	38.00	3.67
13.66	70.56	3301	53.44	39.00	3.81
13.66	70.56	3297	53.75	38.00	3.69
13.66	70.56	3301	52.81	39.00	3.82
13.66	70.56	3301	53.75	38.00	3.65
13.66	70.56	3301	53.44	39.00	3.65
13.15	70.56	3301	51.25	39.00	3.50
12.65	70.56	3305	48.13	41.00	3.54
12.14	70.56	3301	46.25	42.00	3.30
12.14	70.56	3301	43.75	42.00	3.44
12.14	70.56	3297	44.06	42.00	3.31
12.14	70.56	3297	44.06	42.00	3.41
12.14	70.56	3289	43.75	42.00	3.22
11.13	70.56	3285	41.88	43.00	2.87
10.12	70.56	3285	36.88	44.00	2.93
10.62	70.56	3281	36.56	44.00	3.10
11.13	69.30	3273	38.13	44.00	3.04
11.13	69.30	3277	39.06	44.00	3.00
11.13	69.30	3273	39.69	44.00	3.17
11.13	69.30	3273	39.06	44.00	3.04
11.13	69.30	3277	39.06	44.00	3.10
11.13	69.30	3270	39.38	44.00	3.06
11.13	69.30	3266	40.31	44.00	3.06
11.13	69.30	3270	40.00	44.00	3.14
11.13	69.30	3266	39.38	44.00	3.04
11.13	69.30	3270	39.69	44.00	3.18
11.13	69.30	3266	39.69	44.00	3.03
11.13	69.30	3266	40.00	44.00	3.11
11.13	69.30	3270	39.69	44.00	3.10
11.13	69.30	3273	40.00	44.00	3.08
11.13	69.30	3270	39.69	44.00	3.10
11.13	69.30	3273	39.38	44.00	3.02
11.13	69.30	3270	39.38	44.00	3.18
11.13	69.30	3281	40.31	44.00	3.02
11.13	69.30	3285	39.38	44.00	3.15
11.13	70.56	3285	39.69	44.00	3.01
11.13	70.56	3285	39.06	44.00	3.06
10.62	70.56	3289	38.44	44.00	2.98
10.62	70.56	3293	37.81	44.00	3.02
10.62	70.56	3297	38.13	44.00	2.94
10.12	70.56	3301	37.19	44.00	2.86
10.12	70.56	3297	35.00	44.00	2.81
9.61	70.56	3305	34.06	44.00	2.81
9.61	70.56	3305	34.06	44.00	2.72
9.61	70.56	3305	33.13	44.00	2.80
10.12	70.56	3313	33.75	44.00	2.76
9.61	70.56	3309	33.13	44.00	2.79
9.61	70.56	3313	33.44	44.00	2.62
9.11	70.56	3316	31.56	44.00	2.56
9.11	70.56	3320	31.25	44.00	2.58
9.11	70.56	3316	30.63	44.00	2.49
8.60	70.56	3320	29.38	44.00	2.49
8.60	70.56	3316	29.06	44.00	2.45
8.60	70.56	3316	28.75	44.00	2.43
8.60	70.56	3316	28.44	44.00	2.47
8.09	70.56	3313	28.13	44.00	2.38
8.09	70.56	3316	27.50	44.00	2.39
8.09	70.56	3313	27.19	44.00	2.35
8.09	70.56	3309	27.19	44.00	2.34
7.59	70.56	3309	26.56	44.00	2.32
7.59	70.56	3313	26.88	44.00	2.36
7.59	70.56	3313	26.25	44.00	2.31
7.59	70.56	3309	26.88	44.00	2.38
8.09	70.56	3309	27.50	44.00	2.41
8.09	70.56	3301	27.81	44.00	2.36
8.09	70.56	3301	28.13	44.00	2.42
8.09	70.56	3301	28.13	44.00	2.38
8.09	70.56	3297	28.13	44.00	2.46
8.09	70.56	3301	28.13	44.00	2.43
8.09	70.56	3301	28.44	44.00	2.41
8.09	70.56	3297	28.44	44.00	2.48
8.60	70.56	3301	29.06	44.00	2.45
8.60	70.56	3297	28.75	44.00	2.56
8.60	70.56	3293	29.69	44.00	2.49
8.60	70.56	3293	30.00	44.00	2.66
9.61	70.56	3293	32.19	44.00	2.67
9.61	70.56	3293	32.50	44.00	2.77
9.61	70.56	3293	33.13	44.00	2.82
9.61	70.56	3289	33.13	44.00	2.73
9.61	70.56	3289	33.44	44.00	2.86
9.61	70.56	3285	34.38	44.00	2.76
9.61	70.56	3285	34.38	44.00	2.82
9.61	69.30	3285	34.38	44.00	2.74
9.61	69.30	3277	33.75	44.00	2.83
9.61	69.30	3277	33.75	44.00	2.74
9.61	69.30	3277	33.44	44.00	2.83
10.12	69.30	3273	34.38	44.00	2.75
10.12	69.30	3273	34.06	44.00	2.90
10.12	69.30	3270	34.69	44.00	2.78
10.12	69.30	3266	34.38	44.00	2.91
10.12	69.30	3258	35.00	44.00	2.81
10.62	69.30	3254	35.63	44.00	3.06
10.62	69.30	3246	37.81	44.00	3.03
10.62	69.30	3246	38.13	44.00	2.99
10.62	69.30	3242	37.81	44.00	3.17
11.13	69.30	3238	39.06	44.00	3.04
11.13	69.30	3234	39.69	44.00	3.20
11.64	69.30	3234	40.63	43.00	3.25
11.64	69.30	3227	42.50	43.00	3.38
12.14	68.04	3223	44.38	42.00	3.34
12.14	68.04	3219	44.38	42.00	3.44
12.14	68.04	3219	45.31	42.00	3.50
13.15	68.04	3215	47.81	41.00	3.59
12.65	68.04	3211	47.19	41.00	3.48
12.65	68.04	3207	47.81	40.00	3.54
12.65	68.04	3199	48.75	40.00	3.35
12.14	68.04	3199	46.25	41.00	3.42
11.64	68.04	3195	44.69	42.00	3.42
12.65	68.04	3191	47.19	41.00	3.92
15.68	68.04	3191	58.44	36.00	4.15
15.18	68.04	3195	62.50	35.00	4.15
15.68	68.04	3195	65.94	34.00	4.20
15.68	68.04	3203	67.19	34.00	4.25
15.68	68.04	3203	66.88	34.00	4.43
15.68	68.04	3207	68.44	34.00	4.28
15.18	68.04	3215	66.56	34.00	4.34
15.68	68.04	3219	66.56	34.00	4.41
15.68	68.04	3223	67.81	33.00	4.39
15.18	68.04	3230	66.56	34.00	4.02
14.16	69.30	3230	60.63	36.00	4.14
14.16	69.30	3234	60.00	36.00	3.98
14.16	69.30	3238	59.06	36.00	4.13
14.16	69.30	3238	59.38	36.00	3.90
14.16	69.30	3238	59.38	36.00	4.04
14.16	69.30	3238	59.06	36.00	3.78
13.66	69.30	3242	55.63	38.00	3.89
13.66	69.30	3246	55.31	37.00	3.90
14.67	69.30	3246	59.69	36.00	4.06
14.67	69.30	3250	60.94	36.00	4.00
14.67	69.30	3250	61.25	36.00	4.15
14.67	69.30	3250	61.25	36.00	4.06
14.16	69.30	3258	59.38	36.00	3.98
14.16	69.30	3254	59.69	36.00	3.99
13.66	69.30	3254	55.94	38.00	3.75
14.16	69.30	3254	55.63	38.00	3.91
13.66	69.30	3254	54.69	38.00	3.73
13.15	69.30	3254	53.13	38.00	3.62
13.15	69.30	3254	51.25	39.00	3.57
13.15	69.30	3250	50.94	40.00	3.70
13.15	69.30	3254	49.69	40.00	3.58
13.15	69.30	3250	50.00	40.00	3.56
13.15	69.30	3250	51.25	40.00	3.65
13.15	69.30	3246	50.00	40.00	3.51
13.15	69.30	3246	49.69	40.00	3.67
12.65	69.30	3246	50.00	40.00	3.46
12.65	69.30	3242	49.38	40.00	3.52
12.14	69.30	3242	45.00	42.00	3.10
11.64	69.30	3238	41.56	43.00	3.28
11.64	69.30	3234	41.56	43.00	3.19
11.64	69.30	3234	41.56	43.00	3.27
11.13	69.30	3234	41.25	43.00	3.10
10.62	69.30	3227	39.38	44.00	3.06
10.62	69.30	3223	38.44	44.00	2.90
10.12	68.04	3219	36.25	44.00	2.81
10.12	68.04	3215	35.94	44.00	2.93
10.12	68.04	3207	35.31	44.00	2.86
10.12	68.04	3199	35.31	44.00	2.94
10.12	68.04	3195	35.94	44.00	2.84
10.12	68.04	3195	35.94	44.00	2.97
10.12	68.04	3191	36.25	44.00	2.86
10.12	68.04	3184	36.25	44.00	2.97
10.12	68.04	3184	36.56	44.00	2.89
10.12	68.04	3180	36.25	44.00	2.87
10.12	68.04	3176	35.63	44.00	2.89
10.12	68.04	3172	35.94	44.00	2.87
10.12	68.04	3172	35.63	44.00	3.00
10.12	68.04	3164	36.25	44.00	2.82
10.12	68.04	3168	36.56	44.00	2.96
10.12	68.04	3168	36.56	44.00	2.92

Last edited by coevolve; Sep 9, 2009 at 12:43 PM.

Sep 9, 2009 | 02:26 PM

#98

Hiboost

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I've noticed the same "feeling" when cruising where the car feels stronger off boost and doing 80 mph doesn't require entering boost as much with the timing changes. I'll likely do some datalogging tonight to get some definitive comparisons of 40* vs 44* vs 46 * and see if there is a definitive trend to look for where you have gone too far.

Sep 9, 2009 | 02:32 PM

#99

LaXGSR

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I've been running 43 degrees on a stock X for over a week now, and so far have not noticed any difference in MPG based on the readout. My last fillup was especially low due to some data logging (tuning) I did - got 15 mpg. So far, it sounds like maybe stock cars don't benefit as much (since tipoy also did not see an increase in MPG).

Sep 9, 2009 | 04:25 PM

#100

coevolve

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From: Northern VA

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaXGSR

My X is bone stock. I think really comes down to how you are driving. It took me a while to see the gains as well. I had to learn where the parameters (TPS, Load, IPW, etc) liked to be (think sweet spot if you will..) in order to see an increase in MPG...

With the X, I literally have to pay attention to how I am driving to see the increase in MPG. When the fun begins, the gas mileage drops through the floor (as we all know).

Chris, I think the MIVEC maps could really play a role here as well. I think they are responsible for that "feeling" that I was referencing. I don't know enough yet to quantitatively qualify that statement lol....

Sep 12, 2009 | 10:51 PM

#101

Hiboost

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Ok got an update here guys. I finally ran some back to back tests of 40*, 42*, and 44* timing by doing a repeatable 65 mph cruise control test drive near my house on mostly flat expressway. I started data collection and recorded for about 5 minutes each test and then compared the averages from the datalogs. Start and stop locations were within +-100' and cruise control speed was set at 65mph as I started the logging and reset the dash display MPG. I'm not taking too much stock in the MPG reading since the drive was too short for it to be 100% accurate but the averages for even just 650 lines of data definitely show a trend.

Code:

Averages for:       40*          42*         44*
MPG:                32.9         33.2        32.6
RPM:                3087        3080       3085
MPH:               65.60       65.54       65.68
Timing:            39.8*       41.8*      43.6*
Airflow Lb/min:    2.88        2.78         3.00
Airflow G/s:       21.81      21.00       22.69
TPS:               11.43%     11.00%      11.91%
STFT:              +2.22       +2.09      +0.07
LTFT Cruise:       +1.37       +2.39      +5.66
AFR:                14.84      14.85      14.87
Load:             35.55%     34.27%      36.97%
Boost:          -6.09 psi   -6.25 psi    -5.90 psi
IPW:               2.65        2.62       2.67
IDC:               6.83%       6.74%      6.88%

Likely I'll need a longer drive cycle to fully verify these results but it's a start. You can see the peak gains for my car are likely around 42* of timing at 65 mph where there was the least amount of Airflow, TPS, Load, Negative Boost, IPW, and IDC to maintain the same average speed.

I drove about 10 minutes with the new settings before each test run so that LTFT's could adjust if needed although it shouldn't impact the results as far as I know. It does seem that the higher the cruise timing is set for, the more fuel the car tries to add via LTFT. I'm not 100% sold yet until I do a longer test but it's definitely looking like going too far will have a negative impact on MPG. It could be that at 75 MPH (~3550 rpm) the higher timing might work better so that will be my next test.

If anyone has time to do their own comparisons it would interesting to see the results.

Last edited by Hiboost; Sep 13, 2009 at 05:56 AM.

Sep 13, 2009 | 01:27 AM

#102

tephra

EvoM Guru

iTrader: (6)

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 9,486

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From: Melbourne, Australia

nice numbers...

Sep 13, 2009 | 08:43 AM

#103

tipoytm

Evolved Member

Joined: Dec 2008

Posts: 901

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From: CA

I've been running an average of 42* timing @ cruise and it seems to have improved my MPG... yesterday, my tank went 250miles before I had to go refuel... before it would light up the warning at 230-240miles. This is roughly 50/50 city/highway.

After weeks of testing... with a stock setup, came to the conclusion that 42* of timing works best for me.

Last edited by tipoytm; Sep 13, 2009 at 09:08 AM.

Sep 14, 2009 | 09:15 AM

#104

Tractionlimit

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From: Pewaukee, WI

Hiboost: nice test. Good to see people optimizing MPG. 30MPG has been unheard of for me both stock and bigger turbo.

Are there any ill effects of changing the timing @ cruise? Spool-up, etc? Also, I would think your optimized timing would only apply to your turbo, since stock will spool sooner, the timing requirements should be different, right?

It's too bad there's no E85 in NY, because I would love to see what your car would do on it. 480whp and 30mpg?

Sep 14, 2009 | 09:18 AM

#105

Tractionlimit

Evolved Member

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Joined: Feb 2005

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From: Pewaukee, WI

One more question, has anyone verifed their displayed MPG vs. reality? How does this get calculated? Will my higher fuel pressure and larger injectors throw off the reading?

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