Discuss: Disabling DTCs Yes or No
Ok, completely makes sense now..
When there's a quick hit of airflow that goes over the limit, it would normally just pop the code and limp mode, but if you block it, obviously that won't happen and the car drives normally. But if there's something wrong with the tune or actual hard parts on the car that continuously puts airflow readings over the limit, it's still going to limit itself even though it can't tell you with a code.
So basically, when you turn off the codes, it gets rid of the annoyance of trying to tune out the transient codes, but can still limit power output if there's something really wrong and you'd never know about it.
I like friendly discussions like this...everyone learns
When there's a quick hit of airflow that goes over the limit, it would normally just pop the code and limp mode, but if you block it, obviously that won't happen and the car drives normally. But if there's something wrong with the tune or actual hard parts on the car that continuously puts airflow readings over the limit, it's still going to limit itself even though it can't tell you with a code.
So basically, when you turn off the codes, it gets rid of the annoyance of trying to tune out the transient codes, but can still limit power output if there's something really wrong and you'd never know about it.
I like friendly discussions like this...everyone learns
the DTC disable is just making the "detection period" longer.
so its not really disabling it at all, just changing the conditions when it goes off..
i dont think there will be any power change
power = afr + timing + mivec + boost
if those things dont deviate from their norm then power wont change either
so its not really disabling it at all, just changing the conditions when it goes off..
i dont think there will be any power change
power = afr + timing + mivec + boost
if those things dont deviate from their norm then power wont change either
you sir are funny....
pretty sure CFM and VE have a little more to do with that equation than previously stated. and i'm not sure if (mistubishi innovative valve electronic control system) necessarily has anything to do with power. i havent seen that vaiable in any physics equation.....correct me if i'm wrong.
unless these tables are only used to tell us that there is something wrong mechanically and thus check our set up, which then would have nothing to do with power per say, but it would limit us because there is something wrong somewhere. does that make sense where i'm coming from? kind of hard to explain.
Last edited by criptballer; Jan 13, 2010 at 05:35 PM.
pretty sure CFM and VE have a little more to do with that equation than previously stated. and i'm not sure if (mistubishi innovative valve electronic control system) necessarily has anything to do with power. i havent seen that vaiable in any physics equation.....correct me if i'm wrong.
But on the same car - if you don't see any difference in those numbers (afr/timing/mivec/boost) then its making the same power as before.
MIVEC alters VE and therefore CFM - so yeah it has an impact on power...
That 450whp E85 Dom 2.0 Evo 10 GSR I tuned made no power difference between stock and tweaked limit tables with the DTC tables at FFFF
However, I have seen the ASC light be triggered even with DTC tables at FFFF.
The MR/RA will start to limit power with the SST Limit tables stock.
- Bryan
However, I have seen the ASC light be triggered even with DTC tables at FFFF.
The MR/RA will start to limit power with the SST Limit tables stock.
- Bryan
Last edited by GST Motorsports; Jan 13, 2010 at 07:16 PM.
amazing..... so a car at sea level with the same afr/timing/mivec/boost is going to make the same power as a car at lets say 4500 ft above sea level..... huhhhh
theres a few more things to it that just that. like the actual density of the air. oh yeah and once again, CFM is more important that just boost. so you're also saying that my evo x with set maps of afr/timing/mivec/boost is going to put out the same whp numbers even if i switch my stock turbo to a lets say 3076R with the same maps and boost?........ so, you can have no difference in "those numbers" you talk about and still see difference in power. quite drastically 
Thank you GST for proving my theory right about the limit tables. doesn't matter if you have stock maps or not. it wont "limit" the car.
well obvisouly not.
i didn't think i needed to state that all other things being equal (air temp, density, parts etc)...
we are talking about power difference from "disabling the DTC's"... not changing parts, seasons or zipcodes...
to you my friend!
i didn't think i needed to state that all other things being equal (air temp, density, parts etc)...
we are talking about power difference from "disabling the DTC's"... not changing parts, seasons or zipcodes...
to you my friend!
to you my friend. but like i said, i'm glad GST could prove my theory. thats all i cared for from this thread, not arguing with you because we both know we know what we're talking about, i mean you are a guru after all. 
oh yeah and the power difference from switching DTC's was based on the theory stated in this thread that "it limits" the car if the maps aren't changed even with them turned off.
given the same atmospheric conditions (altitude, barometric pressure, air temperature, humidity) and also given the same car and configuration (ie bolt ons and fuel) you should find that if the car logs the same tune (ie mivec + timing + afr + boost) then the car should make the same power...
happy?
basically my point is that if you think the DTC disable is limiting power all you need todo is compare two sets of logs and ensure that mivec, timing, afr and boost are the same then you can conclude that power should be the same. The car wont magically make less OR more power unless those 4 numbers change...
happy?
basically my point is that if you think the DTC disable is limiting power all you need todo is compare two sets of logs and ensure that mivec, timing, afr and boost are the same then you can conclude that power should be the same. The car wont magically make less OR more power unless those 4 numbers change...
Ok, completely makes sense now..
When there's a quick hit of airflow that goes over the limit, it would normally just pop the code and limp mode, but if you block it, obviously that won't happen and the car drives normally. But if there's something wrong with the tune or actual hard parts on the car that continuously puts airflow readings over the limit, it's still going to limit itself even though it can't tell you with a code.
So basically, when you turn off the codes, it gets rid of the annoyance of trying to tune out the transient codes, but can still limit power output if there's something really wrong and you'd never know about it.
I like friendly discussions like this...everyone learns
When there's a quick hit of airflow that goes over the limit, it would normally just pop the code and limp mode, but if you block it, obviously that won't happen and the car drives normally. But if there's something wrong with the tune or actual hard parts on the car that continuously puts airflow readings over the limit, it's still going to limit itself even though it can't tell you with a code.
So basically, when you turn off the codes, it gets rid of the annoyance of trying to tune out the transient codes, but can still limit power output if there's something really wrong and you'd never know about it.
I like friendly discussions like this...everyone learns
basically my point is that if you think the DTC disable is limiting power all you need todo is compare two sets of logs and ensure that mivec, timing, afr and boost are the same then you can conclude that power should be the same. The car wont magically make less OR more power unless those 4 numbers change...
yeah I understand that.
my suggestion was that if you look at a log of a "good" run vs a log of a "bad" run and the ^^^4 numbers are the same then you can conclude that power would be the same..
my suggestion was that if you look at a log of a "good" run vs a log of a "bad" run and the ^^^4 numbers are the same then you can conclude that power would be the same..
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criptballer, do you realize who you're arguing with? tephra definitely knows his stuff (although he may not have been 100% clear initially). Show the man some respect! Without him, we wouldn't even be able to log many of these parameters or disable dtc's
tephra/gst: do you guys know how the MR limits power? Interesting that the MR will do it based on these limit tables but the GSR does not. Does the MR end up adjusting timing, fuel, or boost once limits are exceeded?
tephra/gst: do you guys know how the MR limits power? Interesting that the MR will do it based on these limit tables but the GSR does not. Does the MR end up adjusting timing, fuel, or boost once limits are exceeded?
I suspect the MR can also limit throttle as well but I have no proof of that yet.
- bryan
criptballer, do you realize who you're arguing with? tephra definitely knows his stuff (although he may not have been 100% clear initially). Show the man some respect! Without him, we wouldn't even be able to log many of these parameters or disable dtc's
tephra/gst: do you guys know how the MR limits power? Interesting that the MR will do it based on these limit tables but the GSR does not. Does the MR end up adjusting timing, fuel, or boost once limits are exceeded?
tephra/gst: do you guys know how the MR limits power? Interesting that the MR will do it based on these limit tables but the GSR does not. Does the MR end up adjusting timing, fuel, or boost once limits are exceeded?
I mean no disrespect whats so ever by any of my comments. all i'm saying is that clarity is everything, specially on the forums thats how confusion starts. I love tephra and everything he has done for the community, but even gurus aren't god
they can't sometimes be wrong.... can't they?..... but to tephra