explanation of the 2 step?
Apr 22, 2008, 03:46 PM
#46
Ughh, not reading what I said correctly. I didn't say that there couldn't be dump tubes or injectors in an anti lag setup, I just sais that there don't need to be any mechanical components added in an ALS setup because the term anti lag refers to an ecu tuning technique. As far as the building boost in neutral when about to launch it was a miscommunication. The car doesn't build any boost in this scenario, but apparently builds a small amount as the needle bounces off of the rev limiter creating a small load on the engne.
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Apr 22, 2008 at 03:52 PM.
Apr 22, 2008, 04:08 PM
#48
Ughh, not reading what I said correctly. I didn't say that there couldn't be dump tubes or injectors in an anti lag setup, I just sais that there don't need to be any mechanical components added in an ALS setup because the term anti lag refers to an ecu tuning technique. As far as the building boost in neutral when about to launch it was a miscommunication. The car doesn't build any boost in this scenario, but apparently builds a small amount as the needle bounces off of the rev limiter creating a small load on the engne.
You dont understand how it works. You need exhaust manifold and so on designed for ALS to work properly. The ECU is just dont do it alone.
I quit with him ,he is a same old dude...
Apr 22, 2008, 04:26 PM
#50
this is antilag seen on my hatch
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/a...cks_157778.htm
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/a...cks_157778.htm
Sorry I am partial to cars that spit flames!!
Apr 22, 2008, 04:28 PM
#51
No robevo, I understand fully how the als setup works. My explanation matched up to a T with the link that you supplied after I made my post. ALS will put serious wear and tear on the manifold and turbo unless they are upgraded to handle the extra heat, but the point was that what causes the ALS to actually work is all done in the ecu. This couldn't be more clear. 
Apr 22, 2008, 04:54 PM
#52
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ok back from my drive from work.....I do not know about the ALS, so I have no input for that nor does it pretain to the OP's question and your confusion that the evo does not build boost of the line.
Not just me but Mr. IX also explained how the 2-step works on 8's (05 year) and the evo 9's. If you were to search this forum about he factory 2-step in the evos you will see that they do build boost STOCK UNTUNED, and tuned. It has been well known for the past few years, or maybe my car is just a freak????
Not just me but Mr. IX also explained how the 2-step works on 8's (05 year) and the evo 9's. If you were to search this forum about he factory 2-step in the evos you will see that they do build boost STOCK UNTUNED, and tuned. It has been well known for the past few years, or maybe my car is just a freak????
Apr 22, 2008, 05:09 PM
#53
Remember this started because you claimed stock Evo's don't make boost on the 2 step which is not true (period). Then the more you discuss, we discover you dont even know how the 2 step works because you've never used it properly, yet your providing an explanation to another user who's asking how it works. Alot of the rest of your post is correct or at least the Mitsubishi explanation.
Last edited by Mr. Evo IX; Apr 22, 2008 at 05:12 PM.
Apr 22, 2008, 05:15 PM
#54
Well, I can't get a straight answer out of anyone at the various tuning companies. Pete at works says that the car can build boost if the rpms rise enough, but that without having the engine under load there won't be very much of it. Andrew at AMS says that there is no boost with the clutch pressed in, my sti didn't build any boost with the clutch in, my friends evo 9 doesn't do it, everyone else says it does... I don't know. I guess I'll bounce mine off of rev limiter and see what it does. Amazing that I can't get an accurate answer from any of the tuning companies, or is it that they are right and all of you are wrong?
I don't know what to make of this. I don't even care about finding out about this anymore because it means that I have to talk to people like robevo, who can't speak any english and constantly insults anyone who disagrees with his impossible to read posts. It's so tiring talking to some of the people on here. Anytime someone disagrees with you they insult you and call you a moron, and it's ****ing annoying and childish. Peace out.
I don't know what to make of this. I don't even care about finding out about this anymore because it means that I have to talk to people like robevo, who can't speak any english and constantly insults anyone who disagrees with his impossible to read posts. It's so tiring talking to some of the people on here. Anytime someone disagrees with you they insult you and call you a moron, and it's ****ing annoying and childish. Peace out.
Apr 22, 2008, 05:21 PM
#55
No, your not in neutral, neutral is when no gear is selected. You are in first gear with the clutch disengaged. In this case it makes a big difference becuase the secondary rev limter doesnt work in neutral. Interestingly enough you contradicted yourself again in the same sentance and then asked me how I could possibly misunderstand you.
Listen, you still dont know what your talking about. 7psi @ 5500 rpm is not a small amount of boost for an unloaded engine. How do you think the Evo gets sub 5 second 0-60 times. see how long it takes you to get to 60mph without launching.
Remember this started because you claimed stock Evo's don't make boost on the 2 step which is not true (period). Then the more you discuss, we discover you dont even know how the 2 step works because you've never used it properly, yet your providing an explanation to another user who's asking how it works. Alot of the rest of your post is correct or at least the Mitsubishi explanation.
Listen, you still dont know what your talking about. 7psi @ 5500 rpm is not a small amount of boost for an unloaded engine. How do you think the Evo gets sub 5 second 0-60 times. see how long it takes you to get to 60mph without launching.
Remember this started because you claimed stock Evo's don't make boost on the 2 step which is not true (period). Then the more you discuss, we discover you dont even know how the 2 step works because you've never used it properly, yet your providing an explanation to another user who's asking how it works. Alot of the rest of your post is correct or at least the Mitsubishi explanation.
My explanation to the OP was based off of my experience with launching my sti and my friends comments about his 9, as well as info DIRECTLY FROM AMS AND WORKS! So if the information was wrong, then blame them not me.
Apr 22, 2008, 05:34 PM
#56
No robevo, I understand fully how the als setup works. My explanation matched up to a T with the link that you supplied after I made my post. ALS will put serious wear and tear on the manifold and turbo unless they are upgraded to handle the extra heat, but the point was that what causes the ALS to actually work is all done in the ecu. This couldn't be more clear.
Also make s my uneducated english post right. Don't you think?
post #12
"anti lag is more then ecu tune and doesnt keep RPM at certain level. Don't mixed the two. The two step is less damaging then the anti lag and kind of launch control. The anti-lag is not."
Apr 22, 2008, 05:35 PM
#57
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launching the sti has no bearing on how the evo's factory 2-step works because the sti (usdm) has never come with a factory launch control. Your friend with the 9 is also wrong or you misunderstood him.
Just as it was explain:
1. You must be at a complete stop
2. Depress the clutch all the way in
3. Put into 1st gear
4. Mash the gas until it bounces off the pre set rev limit 5000 for 8's and 5500 for the 9's (i think that is the correct rpm)
5. Watch the boost raise up to 10psi
6. Launch
Im not trying to insult you or call you a moron, as you stated from your previous post (if that pertains to me or the entire EvoM forums, I do not know). It is a KNOWN fact for the past few years about the 2-step. Myself and now Mr. IX have been trying to explain this to you. You as of now drive a X, which i believe do not come with the built in factory 2-step. So you will have to have that programmed into the ECU to enable that feature. If that is why you are disagreeing with us, then that may be the reason, since the X does not have the 2-step built in (i think). I do know that the 8's (05 yr.) and 9's do and has been a know fact.
Just as it was explain:
1. You must be at a complete stop
2. Depress the clutch all the way in
3. Put into 1st gear
4. Mash the gas until it bounces off the pre set rev limit 5000 for 8's and 5500 for the 9's (i think that is the correct rpm)
5. Watch the boost raise up to 10psi
6. Launch
Im not trying to insult you or call you a moron, as you stated from your previous post (if that pertains to me or the entire EvoM forums, I do not know). It is a KNOWN fact for the past few years about the 2-step. Myself and now Mr. IX have been trying to explain this to you. You as of now drive a X, which i believe do not come with the built in factory 2-step. So you will have to have that programmed into the ECU to enable that feature. If that is why you are disagreeing with us, then that may be the reason, since the X does not have the 2-step built in (i think). I do know that the 8's (05 yr.) and 9's do and has been a know fact.
Apr 22, 2008, 05:52 PM
#59
you might want to check out this thread on this forum about ALS on the evo.
he can explain better then i do
here is the no hardware necessary ALS evo engine...
http://image.xcar.com.cn/attachments...vo18_thumb.jpg
here is the "no hardwere necessary" , only ECU tune, SAS system picture for the ALS:
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ary/EvoSAS.jpg
post #67
"The control valve (which you can't see in that picture because it's taken from the wrong angle) is controlled by an on/off solenoid. This on/off solenoid controls a vaccum line from a small vaccum accumulator (connected to the inlet manifold) to the control valve diaphram.
There is also a reverse flow check valve which stops pressure from the exhaust manifold going back into the intake.
The large banjo bolts on the exhaust manifold end of the pipes have very small holes in them. This is a production car issue where the system is not being used as intended (or used at all!). The plumbing is clearly sized to flow a reasonable amount of air, certainly more than the tiny holes in the banjo bolts.
Remember with the GroupN and GroupA homologation (EVO5-6 WRC rally) if you wanted to use anti lag on the rally car the anti lag system had to be on the road car. It didn't matter if it was not enabled so long as the hardware was on the road car. This was the rules."
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...=268974&page=5
he can explain better then i do
here is the no hardware necessary ALS evo engine...
http://image.xcar.com.cn/attachments...vo18_thumb.jpg
here is the "no hardwere necessary" , only ECU tune, SAS system picture for the ALS:
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k2...ary/EvoSAS.jpg
post #67
"The control valve (which you can't see in that picture because it's taken from the wrong angle) is controlled by an on/off solenoid. This on/off solenoid controls a vaccum line from a small vaccum accumulator (connected to the inlet manifold) to the control valve diaphram.
There is also a reverse flow check valve which stops pressure from the exhaust manifold going back into the intake.
The large banjo bolts on the exhaust manifold end of the pipes have very small holes in them. This is a production car issue where the system is not being used as intended (or used at all!). The plumbing is clearly sized to flow a reasonable amount of air, certainly more than the tiny holes in the banjo bolts.
Remember with the GroupN and GroupA homologation (EVO5-6 WRC rally) if you wanted to use anti lag on the rally car the anti lag system had to be on the road car. It didn't matter if it was not enabled so long as the hardware was on the road car. This was the rules."
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...=268974&page=5
Last edited by Robevo RS; Apr 22, 2008 at 06:02 PM.
Apr 22, 2008, 06:53 PM
#60
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Ughh, no no no. The 2 step is just an rpm limiter when the clutch is depressed and the car is stopped of barely moving. It prevents the rpms from rising beyond like 5k so as to preserve the transmission. There is no boost built up during this process, as boost will normally only build when the engine is under load, i.e. clutch fully engaged and in gear. You are running on vacuum pressure when idling or in neutral and when the throttle is pressed all the way you will go to a state that is between negative vacuum and boost, which on most boost gauges is 0.
Once the clutch is engaged the car will then start building boost rapidly. This feature on the EVO is not a performance feature but rather a safety feature. It is designed solely to preserve the transmission from excessive driveline shock. Further adding to the saftey is a restrictor pill in the clutch master cylinder that slows the flow of hydraulic fluid to the clutch. This slows the engagement of the clutch when the clutch is let out too quickly. This is a useful protection feature that is designed to minimize driveline shock to the more costly transmision components, but at the expense of sacrificing the clutch.
Launching the EVO tends to destroy clutches as a result of this, especially when combined with the fact that mitsu puts in soft, crappy clutches in the evo. Upgrade the clutch ASAP if you plan on launching your car on a regular basis. I certainly don't recommend this unless you have a good clutch and a built tranny, but there are ecu programs like reflashes and stand alone engine management systems that can allow the car to build a certain amount of boost when in neutral for more "explosive" launches, but it is terrible for the tranny. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! I hope that this clears up some of the misconceptions out there about the factory 2 step in the evo.
Once the clutch is engaged the car will then start building boost rapidly. This feature on the EVO is not a performance feature but rather a safety feature. It is designed solely to preserve the transmission from excessive driveline shock. Further adding to the saftey is a restrictor pill in the clutch master cylinder that slows the flow of hydraulic fluid to the clutch. This slows the engagement of the clutch when the clutch is let out too quickly. This is a useful protection feature that is designed to minimize driveline shock to the more costly transmision components, but at the expense of sacrificing the clutch.
Launching the EVO tends to destroy clutches as a result of this, especially when combined with the fact that mitsu puts in soft, crappy clutches in the evo. Upgrade the clutch ASAP if you plan on launching your car on a regular basis. I certainly don't recommend this unless you have a good clutch and a built tranny, but there are ecu programs like reflashes and stand alone engine management systems that can allow the car to build a certain amount of boost when in neutral for more "explosive" launches, but it is terrible for the tranny. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! I hope that this clears up some of the misconceptions out there about the factory 2 step in the evo.
