explanation of the 2 step?
Apr 22, 2008, 06:54 PM
#61
I'm done, this is going no where. Robevo, how many times do I have to explain that I know what an ALS setup does. Using it reliably requires an upgraded turbo manifold because of the increased heat, but there is nothing mechanical about it. It is all done via ecu tuning, and this is even noted in the supplied links. Now there are more intricate setps that can use an external injector to spit raw fuel into the header, but these aren't necessary for the system to still work. You just don't understand what I'm saying, do you? You keep talking about how anti-lag is not launch control... I KNOW. What I was saying all along was that an anti lag setup can be incorporated into the launch process in respect to the fact that once the clutch is engaged and the rpms drop accordingly especially if you bog it down at all, then the ALS get really help get the car off of the line.
This can be used in conjunction with ecu tuning to build boost when the clutch is depressed even though there is no load on the engine. I have explained this countless times, and it is completely accurate. As far as the misunderstanding about the factory 2 step, the car doesn't build any boost on the way up to the rev limiter because there is no load on the engine, and because this is my first evo I didn't realize that once the artificial rev limiter is hit that boost starts to build. My friend with the 9 must not know this either and probably launches his car as soon as it hits the limiter rather than waiting for the boost to build.
This could be why he didn't know this either. As far as I knew, and from what AMS AND WORKS TUNING BOTH TOLD ME, the factory 2 step was just a rev limiter and didn't build any boost. My STi was a bit different in that it didn't have a 2 step so the rpms would just rise and no boost was made. There are a few things that are uniquely different about the EVO that I am still learning and getting used to, so in the meantime I ask the tuners about stuff and then relay that info to try to help people like the OP. So why don't you quit insulting me and using your stupid little laughing emoticons everytime you think you've made some clever comeback.
Also, if you read my posts more carefully before responding then you would see that when you are trying to correct me that you are just repeating what I've already said, and just didn't understand what I was saying. Beyond that, I still can't get a clear answer anywhere because AMS and WORKS TUNING have both confirmed what I have thought to be true all along. Are they wrong, or are you guys? Maybe they are wrong, and if so then I am truly disappointed that the biggest evo tuner in the country doesn't know the correct answer to such a simple question about the car. So sue me for believing what they told me and jump down my throat some more. Jeez, you people are incredible. Makes me not even want to be here... great sense of community, guys!
This can be used in conjunction with ecu tuning to build boost when the clutch is depressed even though there is no load on the engine. I have explained this countless times, and it is completely accurate. As far as the misunderstanding about the factory 2 step, the car doesn't build any boost on the way up to the rev limiter because there is no load on the engine, and because this is my first evo I didn't realize that once the artificial rev limiter is hit that boost starts to build. My friend with the 9 must not know this either and probably launches his car as soon as it hits the limiter rather than waiting for the boost to build.
This could be why he didn't know this either. As far as I knew, and from what AMS AND WORKS TUNING BOTH TOLD ME, the factory 2 step was just a rev limiter and didn't build any boost. My STi was a bit different in that it didn't have a 2 step so the rpms would just rise and no boost was made. There are a few things that are uniquely different about the EVO that I am still learning and getting used to, so in the meantime I ask the tuners about stuff and then relay that info to try to help people like the OP. So why don't you quit insulting me and using your stupid little laughing emoticons everytime you think you've made some clever comeback.
Also, if you read my posts more carefully before responding then you would see that when you are trying to correct me that you are just repeating what I've already said, and just didn't understand what I was saying. Beyond that, I still can't get a clear answer anywhere because AMS and WORKS TUNING have both confirmed what I have thought to be true all along. Are they wrong, or are you guys? Maybe they are wrong, and if so then I am truly disappointed that the biggest evo tuner in the country doesn't know the correct answer to such a simple question about the car. So sue me for believing what they told me and jump down my throat some more. Jeez, you people are incredible. Makes me not even want to be here... great sense of community, guys!
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Apr 22, 2008 at 07:27 PM. Reason: typo
Apr 22, 2008, 08:18 PM
#62
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if you read my last post...i think the confusion is on the X. The X does not have the built in factory 2-step, which is what you have a X. So if you are asking AMS about the building boost of the line on the X you can't since it will have to be Tuned into the ECU to accomplish this. This is different on the 8 and 9 since they have the 2-step from the factory.
Hope this clears things up!
EDIT** - look like the X does come with the factory 2-step. So if you have a boost gauge on your car...go out and try it out. Once you start bouncing off of the built in rev limit, watch the boost go up!
Hope this clears things up!
EDIT** - look like the X does come with the factory 2-step. So if you have a boost gauge on your car...go out and try it out. Once you start bouncing off of the built in rev limit, watch the boost go up!
Last edited by EVO316; Apr 22, 2008 at 08:24 PM. Reason: X has 2 - step.
Apr 22, 2008, 08:34 PM
#63
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Hey take it easy bro. Regardless if your right or wrong, lets just let everyone decide for themselves. For those who get it to work, it will be to their advantage. And for those who can't get it to work...oh wells, they'll just have to launch the hard way or not launch at all. The reason why some Evos are so fast while others are so slow is because of the driver. Not that the person can't drive but because the person did not utilize all that is available from the Evo. We are all here to learn, there are many things I do not know as well but I am glad there are people here who are willing to share the info. Obviously you know a good bit about mechanicals but the Evo is still a new fresh car to America, hence the new methods of driving and tuning as time progresses. Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure there is a big miscommunication in between all of this.
Apr 22, 2008, 08:35 PM
#64
Well guys, I think I am wrong on this one. I just talked to a different friend who has another evo and he said that his car builds about 7 lbs with the 2 step. Strange, because AMS and WORKS both told me that it didn't. I don't understand why they wouldn't know this... either way, this is actually pretty cool. I'm glad ot know that we have such a cool launch control on our evos. The only thing that sucks is that the limit should be higher than 5k. Oh well, nothing that a little tuning can't fix. 
Either way, I think that there definitely was some miscommunication going on here with the whole ALS conversation as well as the 2 step confusion. I haven't launched my X yet because I don't trust the stock clutch, but I might try it just to see how the boost builds with the 2 step. I launched the hell out of my STi and had loads of fun with it, but let's face it the tranny in the STI is a lot more durable than the EVO. 
Anyway, I'm glad that we got everything cleared up guys, and in the future if we disagree can we keep the insults to a minimum and be more constructive? Like most people, I am a lot more perceptive to new information when it's being presented to me in a respectful manner than when someone is implying that I'm some noob who doesn't know how to drive. This is my first evo but by no means my first performance car and I've been racing for years. I guess what I'm learning is that while many things are the same with the STI, there are many things that are different with the EVO. While I have learned most of these differences already, as of tonight I know one more thing.
Either way, I think that there definitely was some miscommunication going on here with the whole ALS conversation as well as the 2 step confusion. I haven't launched my X yet because I don't trust the stock clutch, but I might try it just to see how the boost builds with the 2 step. I launched the hell out of my STi and had loads of fun with it, but let's face it the tranny in the STI is a lot more durable than the EVO. Anyway, I'm glad that we got everything cleared up guys, and in the future if we disagree can we keep the insults to a minimum and be more constructive? Like most people, I am a lot more perceptive to new information when it's being presented to me in a respectful manner than when someone is implying that I'm some noob who doesn't know how to drive. This is my first evo but by no means my first performance car and I've been racing for years. I guess what I'm learning is that while many things are the same with the STI, there are many things that are different with the EVO. While I have learned most of these differences already, as of tonight I know one more thing.
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Apr 22, 2008 at 08:50 PM.
Apr 22, 2008, 08:37 PM
#65
The X GSR has the 2 step launch control. I've shown a new owner how it works on his car. There is even a how to disable it in the X how to's so you can launch at a higher rpm and not bog.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=329793
STi2EvoX, I certainly dont mean to insult you. That was not my intention. There are tons of threads about the factory 2 step. LIke I said earlier it just isnt set high enough for most sticky track conditions. If you don't spin the tires a little it's actually really hard on the driveline as it's the leading cause of wheel hop. The ideal launch has you spinning the tires long enough so your rpms never really drop below your 2 step rpm.
Also, I'm by no means a great driver, just an old guy with an Evo that loves it.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=329793
STi2EvoX, I certainly dont mean to insult you. That was not my intention. There are tons of threads about the factory 2 step. LIke I said earlier it just isnt set high enough for most sticky track conditions. If you don't spin the tires a little it's actually really hard on the driveline as it's the leading cause of wheel hop. The ideal launch has you spinning the tires long enough so your rpms never really drop below your 2 step rpm.
Also, I'm by no means a great driver, just an old guy with an Evo that loves it.
Last edited by Mr. Evo IX; Apr 22, 2008 at 08:39 PM.
Apr 22, 2008, 08:39 PM
#66
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Ladies and Gentlemen we have a Weener!!!!
There you go man....that's what we've been trying to tell you, and if you read my last post the X does have the 2 step, i did not know if it did or not. Maybe there was a misunderstanding between you and AMS, like I said in one of my posts.
There you go man....that's what we've been trying to tell you, and if you read my last post the X does have the 2 step, i did not know if it did or not. Maybe there was a misunderstanding between you and AMS, like I said in one of my posts.
Apr 23, 2008, 03:49 AM
#67
Anti lag is all done via ecu through fuel enrichment, timing retardation, and boost build up. There is no physical/mechnical component in an anti lag setup. The 2 step (unless we are talking about 2 different things) from the factory is just an artificial rev limiter at 5k when the car is in neutral. Boost building via a studder box or anti-lag setup is a totally different parameter in the ecu, but can be used in conjunction with the factory 2 step rev limiter.
dont you even remember what you write here , and why i start explain to you what is the ALS? I eve posted pictures for you and sites ,and you still claiming the ALS is nothing more then ECU tune... You need extra air supply to burn the passed thru /from the engine/ unused fuel in the exhaust manifold, to make the fuel burn and keep the turbo spinning when off throttle. /the heat will ignite, but without air is hard you know/
"There is no physical/mechnical component in an anti lag setup." etc.....
you coming back always with my english, but at least i know what i'm talking about. And I dont try to change my opinion later when i'm actually start understanding the things around evos, and come back like you do.
Like post #12
"^ This is exactly what I just said. "
So what is i dont understand about your comments? You might can cheat whit this attitude your friends , but you been lost here since you came.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Apr 23, 2008 at 04:13 AM.
Apr 23, 2008, 04:14 AM
#68
hahaha, to be honest, this guy was upsetting me talkin about the two step like he has all the answers..i'm glad to see his last post that he finally understand it does build boost....your friend with the 9 obviously wasn't in gear(nuetral as you call it) and he wasn't flooring it until it hit the two step (5k)....he has to hold his foot down and WAIT for it to bounce and build boost...
but anyway, he gets it, so i dont need to explain
but anyway, he gets it, so i dont need to explain
Apr 23, 2008, 07:14 AM
#70
I've asked the mods to try to clean all the misinformation out of this thread. That way it doesn't confuse all the Evo newbies any further.
50% of the posts are wrong. 45% of the posts are about something that doesn't affect the stock 2-step. Only 5% good information. 6 pages of junk to answer a very simple question posted by the OP. Now, that's community for you.
50% of the posts are wrong. 45% of the posts are about something that doesn't affect the stock 2-step. Only 5% good information. 6 pages of junk to answer a very simple question posted by the OP. Now, that's community for you.
Apr 23, 2008, 07:40 AM
#71
I think the OP got his answer pretty quickly and if he didnt, here is the simple answer:
2 Step = 2 step rev limiter with a 2nd lower limit while clutch depressed to hold your ideal launch rpm while leaving your foot planted on the gas for the fastest launch. Once the clutch is engage, the rev limiter goes back to the default setting.
As a second note, you can build some boost with a 2 step, usually not much. Discussion of antilag is best left for another thread. So question answer, no need to go on for another 5 pages
2 Step = 2 step rev limiter with a 2nd lower limit while clutch depressed to hold your ideal launch rpm while leaving your foot planted on the gas for the fastest launch. Once the clutch is engage, the rev limiter goes back to the default setting.
As a second note, you can build some boost with a 2 step, usually not much. Discussion of antilag is best left for another thread. So question answer, no need to go on for another 5 pages
Last edited by CharlesJ; Apr 23, 2008 at 08:35 AM.
Apr 23, 2008, 07:53 AM
#72
looks to me like the OP asked a simple question, got the wrong answer from a newbie, and the rest of the community jumped in trying to dispel all the misinformation from said newbie. 
I think the OP got his answer pretty quickly and if he didnt, here is the simple answer:
2 Step = 2 step rev limiter with a 2nd lower limit while in neutral to hold your ideal launch rpm while leaving your foot planted on the gas for the fastest launch. Once the clutch is engage, the rev limiter goes back to the default setting.
As a second note, you can build some boost with a 2 step, usually not much. Discussion of antilag is best left for another thread. So question answer, no need to go on for another 5 pages
2 Step = 2 step rev limiter with a 2nd lower limit while in neutral to hold your ideal launch rpm while leaving your foot planted on the gas for the fastest launch. Once the clutch is engage, the rev limiter goes back to the default setting.
As a second note, you can build some boost with a 2 step, usually not much. Discussion of antilag is best left for another thread. So question answer, no need to go on for another 5 pages
Apr 23, 2008, 08:19 AM
#73
Also, in STi2EvoX's defense anti-lag can be created completely with the ECU and it can be combined with launch control. Many aftermarket stand alones have this feature. The way they create antilag is through ridiculously retarded timing that allows the ignition before the exhaust valve closes which creates an additional combustion chamber in the manifold and turbo. This technique can fully spool a big turbo (GT42, S372, etc) on the line, but causes rapid increase in cylinder head, manifold, turbo, and exhaust gas temperatures. Obviously using your turbo as a combustion chamber will seriously shorten it's life.
The anti-lag that other members are talking about is the OEM anti-lag found on UKDM and JDM cars. I'm not going to re-explain why it's there or what it consists of but it is defeated from the factory. Most "real" rally cars have actual anti-lag systems with additional hardware.
The anti-lag that other members are talking about is the OEM anti-lag found on UKDM and JDM cars. I'm not going to re-explain why it's there or what it consists of but it is defeated from the factory. Most "real" rally cars have actual anti-lag systems with additional hardware.
Last edited by Mr. Evo IX; Apr 23, 2008 at 08:22 AM.
Apr 23, 2008, 08:36 AM
#74
I think the OP got his answer pretty quickly and if he didnt, here is the simple answer:
2 Step = 2 step rev limiter with a 2nd lower limit while clutch depressed to hold your ideal launch rpm while leaving your foot planted on the gas for the fastest launch. Once the clutch is engage, the rev limiter goes back to the default setting.
As a second note, you can build some boost with a 2 step, usually not much. Discussion of antilag is best left for another thread. So question answer, no need to go on for another 5 pages
2 Step = 2 step rev limiter with a 2nd lower limit while clutch depressed to hold your ideal launch rpm while leaving your foot planted on the gas for the fastest launch. Once the clutch is engage, the rev limiter goes back to the default setting.
As a second note, you can build some boost with a 2 step, usually not much. Discussion of antilag is best left for another thread. So question answer, no need to go on for another 5 pages
Charles is quicker on the draw than I. Thanks!
Apr 23, 2008, 08:55 AM
#75
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Mods, please lock this thread. I think the OP if he has read this thread has got a very good understanding of the factory 2-step. Sti2EvoX was just a huge misunderstanding, myself and Evo IX were trying to explain that to him on the 2-step building boost, and the how it worked.
I on the other hand, did give some wrong info about the X, in which i stated that it did not have the 2-step, but in deed it does from some quick research and i cleared that up as well in one of my posts.
I on the other hand, did give some wrong info about the X, in which i stated that it did not have the 2-step, but in deed it does from some quick research and i cleared that up as well in one of my posts.