PERRIN_Jeff

This same writeup can be found on our website HERE

EVO X FMIC PROJECT

Like we weren't going to make a new intercooler for the X. For one, the stock one is pretty restrictive, and two, in order for the EVO to compete with the STI in our EVO vs. STI project it really needed one! Besides the gains we saw there is one very important thing we found, which will be a Huge concern to all X owners after they find this same thing out.

Before we get too deep, lets look the hard data on both cores. First off the old EVO and the new EVO have the same exact core, just different tanks. When designing the new core, the new bumper opening is much smaller, but has much better routing to the core. So more air is pushed directly through it.

Stock EVO 9_____ 19.50" x 11.5" x 2.5625"____ 566.5 cu-in 25 (.167"tall charge tubes)____ .268" tall ambient fins
Stock EVO X_____ 19.50" x 11.5" x 2.5625"____ 566.5 cu-in 25 (.167"tall charge tubes)____ .268" tall ambient fins
PERRIN EVO 9___ 25.00" x 11.625" x 3.5" _____1017.2cu-in 14 (.375"tall charge tubes)____ .375" tall ambient fins
PERRIN EVO X ___20.75" x 12.375" x 3.625"___ 930.8 cu-in 15 (.375"tall charge tubes)____ .375" tall ambient fins




This is just our prototype core we had built. This was built using a few basic things like make it as big as possible while still fitting easily. One interesting thing we found was the core wasn't centered to start with. It actually is off center by about .75" or so. Not very noticeable unless you start measuring things. So besides fixing that, we went as reasonably deep as we could, and as tall as the ambient air would still flow through it. It looks like Mitsubishi (using the same size core) got smart about making the bumper match the IC size. THe downfall is it eliminates a few inches on each side for us to make the core wider!



You can see by the pics that there isn't lots of room to go too much wider. But we push the limits of the core and bumper to ensure all the air goes through the core. This leaves virtually no welds showing from the outside of the car. Other than that we use the OEM type of hanger system to secure the core. This teamed with the lower brackets makes the core rock solid.

Test Time

Onto the test! For this test we had just finished tuning Stage 1 with the Unichip and bolted on our Turboback exhaust. We left the bumper off for the test in order to be able to swap the cores quickly. The bumper beam was left on also. This may put both cores at a slight disadvantage with loosing some of the plastic diverters on the bumper, but still it makes them both equal. Another thing is our tanks we were using some prototype tanks we built not production cast aluminum tanks. Then one more thing to keep in mind (important when comparing other IC tests out there) our car is tuned! This isn't the stock ECU tuning! Or stock boost!



Like some of our other tests we have show on the net, we are using the Innovate logging hardware to log temps and other important data. Our (3) temp probes are mounted as follows. One in the aluminum boost tube right after the turbo, one in the lower charge pipe after the intercooler, and the final one is right in front of the IC for ambient temps. Along with we do have boost, EGT and a few other things hooked up. The only other thing we would be measuring is EGT's. Normally the IC's don't effect this too much, but we noticed a huge difference in some instances.

HARD DATA

After a few runs, the IC outlet temps seemed to keep getting worse. We did about 4 runs with about 30 seconds between them. The peak IC outlets temps started at 140 and by the last run, 149 degrees! This is what we seen on small IC's mounted in crappy places (STI), not on an EVO! So why is the question?? The EGT's caught my eyes as they seemed a bit high. The first run peaked at 1678F, hot for sure, and something too keep an eye on. By the final run 1701F was the highest. These are pretty toasty! So why?? The Pre-IC temps were astronomically high! Normally we see 250-300 on a turbo that is really working or being pushed beyond its normal efficiency range. But we were seeing 400F! You could bake cookies at that temp!! This was only on the first run! The second run was 418F which it stabilized out from there. Still this is nuts! So again WHY?? We will answer that later.




So with some scary data behind us we thought, our IC must be able to do much better! It does and it deals with that extreme Pre-IC temps pretty well. The Pre-IC temps were still hot but about 20F cooler. First runs peaked at 380F, and the last run peaked at 400F. Well that is a good start. This drop in temp could be from the IC being less restrictive than the OEM core. We saw about .9psi vs 1.5psi drop. So the turbo has to work less to make the same boost, more efficient! Now the data that really matters. The Post-IC temps were much more inline, but still about 20F higher than we normally see. The first run showed a peak of 114F and the last run hit 120F. This was huge improvement. With a good tuning tool this could be worth a little extra timing and more power! Or, if nothing else a safer setup. EGT's also improved peaking from 1616F in the first run and 1636F. So overall the PERRIN FMIC ran more than 30F cooler on the IC oulet temps, and almost 80F cooler! All that means a happier safer engine.

Worst case scenario runs are shown below and temps taken at 7300RPM
______________Stock FMIC Tuned Stage 2_______________ PERRIN FMIC Tuned Stage 2

3000RPM___________ Inlet 245F/ Outlet 104F _____________Inlet 238F/ Outlet 101F
7300RPM ___________Inlet 412F/ Outlet 144F_____________ Inlet 398F/ Outlet 120F
IC Efficiency _________80%-78% at redline ________________82%-85% at redline.
PEAK EGT's_________ 1678-1701F_______________________ 1616-1636F

The lower RPM IC efficiency numbers are a little scewed as the temps just started to climb at this RPM.

Which one made the most power? Again to be clear, this started as a stage 1 car with just FMIC's swaped from one set of runs to the next. Of course our core made more power. Now it wasn't tons but there are a few reasons for that. The super high turbo outlet temps, turbo is pushed to the max as far as flow, and we didn't turn the boost up from where it was or do any ECU tuning to really show the benefits. What was most important was consistency! The car would loose HP every run, and by the 5th run it was down 15WHP. With the PERRIN FMIC installed it only lost about 5WHP and it leveled off.



THIS ALL SOUNDS GREAT, WHEN CAN I GET MY PERRIN EVO X FMIC!

So where is our core?? Well we learned very quickly that sheetmetal tanks is huge labor sucker-upper, and cast endtanks work and look much better. So the downfall is this adds a bit of time (and cost) to get our FMIC out, but it will pay off to those who wait. Some may wonder what is involved with making endtanks? There are many steps, but I bet none of you expected to see wood involved in one of the steps!

Step one is make a prototype set to use, and another to build a pattern from. We used a couple of our other cast tanks as a starting point, then started to cut an weld until the tanks were done. From there the part goes to the pattern maker who will create our part from one of many different materials, and most commonly use is wood! I know something you might find in your Benz on the dash! Maple and other dense woods are used to create both the inside cavity and the outside of the part. With a pattern finished, sand can be poured around the pattern, pattern can then be removed. The 2 halves are stuck together in a box, and molten aluminum is poored in. After cooling, out comes our end tanks!



Basic prototypes of tanks with notes for the pattern maker




After some back and forth, and test fitting, pattern for the casting process are created

This makes it sound like its a long ways away, but actually our FMIC i just around the corner. This info may sound new to those reading it, but actually we have been sitting on this waiting to release it closer to when we can start shipping the FMIC's. In roughly 3 weeks parts will start showing up in customers hands!
CONCLUSION

In conclusion, Our intercooler works great! Wait, so, why does the EVO have such high Pre-IC temps?? If the turbo was really pumping out those temps without something else effecting it, the turbo would have to be running about 45% efficient. This can't be as we have Compressor maps showing air flow and we know that base on the HP we see it can't be that, then what?

Wait until your car cools off one day, run your hand above the compressor of the turbo under the exhaust manifold and heat shield. What do you find? I find nothing, yes almost no room between the turbo and the exhaust manifold! There is roughly .250" between the turbo compressor housing and the exhaust manifold. What happens with exhaust manifold glows red hot under normal conditions? The extreme radiant heat heats up the entire aluminum compressor housing and in turn heats up the air going through the turbo. Normally when air gets compressed in this situation it heats up to 250F-ish, and the fact its getting heated up to 400F is a little scary!

Ok so besides the extreme heat coming out of the turbo, I wonder how this is going to effect the longevity of the turbo. If the turbo outlet temps are 400, the compressor housing must be significantly above this. While the CHRA of the turbo is cooled by coolant, and there is oil running through it, this is much hotter than a normal turbo runs. I see a potential for future issues. So what are WE going to do about this? We have 2 things in the works, just wait and see!

The fact the turbo is latterly a quarter of an inch from the glowing red hot exhaust manifold is a major design flaw. Its amazing the Stock FMIC does an OK job of cooling it down, but still the IC out temps were much hotter than we typically see on the Subies and on other cars. With that said, I am very happy that our PERRIN FMIC did make a difference in all aspects. If we can solve the Turbo out temps, I think the FMIC can be fully utilized and be worth at least twice as much as it showed on the dyno. Now its time to do some further tuning!

meat_EVO

iTrader: (7)

werd.

Rguy

iTrader: (6)

Your findings about the stock turbo temps are worrying me a lot.

STi2EvoX

Yes, that is definitely worrisome. Although, how could mitsu not have spotted this? I wonder if the heat shielding and chimney that guides air over the turbo from the hood scoop works well to control this, and that the fans on the dyno just dont flow enough air to simulate this. Any thoughts?

PERRIN_Jeff

Dyno fans definitely do not flow like the road, but with that said, we saw virtually the same temps on the road.

The "Chimney" and scoop don't really do much other than create some airflow through there, its not like a WRX scoop blowing masses of air over it.

But what is really cool is how well the IC takes that crazy temp down to a reasonably normal temp. I think that our solution we are working on will drop the IC outlet temps quite a bit, but the question is how much, and will it make more HP.

In the next week or so, we will show you our solution and give some data as to how it worked!

STi2EvoX

Well, don't keep us in suspense, I want to know what the solution is! I don't see how there's anything that could be done other than a new turbo manifold that relocates the turbo, because if clearance of the compressor housing and the glowing red hot pipes of the manifold s the issue then unless you guys have some wacky heat wrap that performs miracles than I'd say there's no other viable option. Hurry up! I am very concerned after hearing this.

PERRIN_Jeff

Call me the Miracle worker

evostang

Can you please post the boost curve and ambient temperature?

596736

iTrader: (15)

Nice write up

StevenStarke

iTrader: (77)

very nice write up and great info. only thing is:

If your using a smaller core then before, you may want to lower the HP rating on the core.

On my evo 9, i had your intercooler which is supposed to be good for 750hp. I only made 523 whp on a mustang dyno instead of high 5's due to my IAT's going up from 101 degrees to 149. on the same dyno, same day, i watched another evo with the same turbo only go up 20 degrees with another brand 3.5" core. While I should have a 4" core on there, the intercooler was not supporting my power level heating up that much.

-Steve

Noize

iTrader: (24)

This is great tech, Jeff. Thanks for posting it.

I don't have an EGT, but I might want to run one now. From old school, I was always told that a piston engine does not want to see more than 1550 degrees and 1650 for a rotary. 1700 is just insane to me.

People have given me a really hard time about not pilling the line in attempt to decrease boost taper, but after reading this, I'm sticking with the boost I have on this turbo.

I'm definitely in the market for an upgraded FMIC after reading this. My car is tuned and happy now. Its ready for a better intercooler and a trip back to the dyno for a remap.

Mightygnu

iTrader: (4)

Great writeup Jeff!

Cow town racer

Possibly a heat shield between the manifold and the turbo?

xbox4414

iTrader: (2)

Wow this is very interesting data. And that is also the cleanest FMIC I've ever seen, nice!

PERRIN_Jeff

The blue line is the boost curve with our FMIC testing. The yellow curver is after the Unichip was ditched for our ECUTEK flash. The higher boost at redline with the Unichip could have been from the cam timing being screwed with because of us modifying the MAF signal and timing. The Stage 3 results are posted up BTW.

Ambient temp for that day was 65-71-ish. Our temp probe measured 80-83-ish. But this was mounted right next to the core and some of the radiant heat might have effected it.


Well there is that whole IC rated at "X" HP thing. Ok, this might **** some people off, but that whole thing is a load of poo. The stock core can run 1000HP, but you would get alot more swapping to ours.

Yes, our sales team is told a number (because they get the question alot), and the number is one that does't scare people into thinking our core is too big, nor too small. But the question is how does this number come about? Flow testing? Great, what vacuum is it flowed at? What is the standard? This vacuum isn't representative of what it is under boost either.

A good example is some of the WRX Top mounted intercoolers made by a particular company. They rate them to 1000HP, and they are smaller than our TMIC we make! But because the core has a large cross section, and it is really short, on a flow bench it will flow alot! There is no way i am going to run 1000HP on my car with a TMIC!

The way these are rated is by flowrates, but this doesn't account for how well they cool, or how restrictive they really are (because who knows what vacuum is being pulled on them during the test)

Only throwing the WRX reference there as everyone knows how small the TMIC's can be, and how they are in a crappy place.

With that all said, its very hard to explain to all the customers who call, with out loosing some of them. So its easier just to teach our sales team the quick answer to that HP question. But it can be a very confusing subject.

We did a track day with the X and the EGT's were very stable at peaking at 1650F at redline the whole time. This is with the 350WHP, the FMIC and the car running as it did.

Thanks! The final castings are showing up anyday, and as soon as they do, pics will be posted!