Transmission drain bolt covered in metal.
Yes the EVO-X has a stronger transmission and transfer case but the rear differential is not as strong as the older EVOs. The nice thing EVO-X 5speed transmission, is that has much better synchronizer assemblies that are more tolerant of these junk clutches that don't fully disengage.
Jon@TRE
Jon@TRE
Thanks for chiming in. Hope you had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
You and I talked about this before and I won't have dead on numbers, but the previous trannies I believe were good for about 260 lb ft of torque. Do you know how much more the new 6 Spd's are capable of handling?
With just minor mods, 260 is blown out of the water but they will take a certain amount of abuse which I am sure even the new 6's will as well, but with time, everything has it's breaking point.
By the way, did you see the answer for the "Wax" buildup you found
Doc
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I'm about to switch over to the AMSOIL MTG as well, so let me know if it shifts better.
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Hi Jon,
Thanks for chiming in. Hope you had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
You and I talked about this before and I won't have dead on numbers, but the previous trannies I believe were good for about 260 lb ft of torque. Do you know how much more the new 6 Spd's are capable of handling?
With just minor mods, 260 is blown out of the water but they will take a certain amount of abuse which I am sure even the new 6's will as well, but with time, everything has it's breaking point.
By the way, did you see the answer for the "Wax" buildup you found
Doc
Thanks for chiming in. Hope you had a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.
You and I talked about this before and I won't have dead on numbers, but the previous trannies I believe were good for about 260 lb ft of torque. Do you know how much more the new 6 Spd's are capable of handling?
With just minor mods, 260 is blown out of the water but they will take a certain amount of abuse which I am sure even the new 6's will as well, but with time, everything has it's breaking point.
By the way, did you see the answer for the "Wax" buildup you found
Doc
Doc, only the MR has a 6 speed; the GSRs are 5 speeds. Also, I am still confused where you are getting this 260 lb ft of torque thing from. The X, even in stock form, puts down about 230 whp and 250 wtq, so they would have to be rated much higher than 260. Hell, Buschur has taken a stock tranny evo 9 with nothing more than a clutch upgrade and run 9 second passes at like 1000 hp out of it without any failures, and the X's tranny is even stronger. Are you sure you're not thinking of a different car?
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Jan 9, 2009 at 08:04 PM.
Someone said you're supposed to be on a flat surface to change the transfer case oil so you don't overfill it. I changed mine while my X was up on jacks in the front. I wasn't able to put in a whole quart like it's supposed to take (1.0 qt). I managed slightly less. That should be sufficient, don't you think?
Jon@TRE
Doc
if it makes you feels beter i changed my tranny oil today, and had the same small metal particles you are seeing on your mag plug,,,, it completly normal as some have stated already.
This picture was taken 4000 miles on the odometer. Like many others were (are) reporting, my transmission had been very "notchy" from the moment I drove it off the lot, especially during 1-2, 2-3 gear shifts. After hearing some good things about AMSOIL MTG I decided to drain the stock fluid. So, I pull the drain plug and here's what I find:
And here's a close-up:
The next day I gave my dealer a call first thing to schedule an appointment. In the meantime I had the chance to see what I thought of the MTG. WOW! Very impressed--shifts are buttery smooth compared to the stock fluid. The difference between the MTG and the stock DiaQueen fluid is night and day.
A day later I was at the dealer to drop the car off. As I was giving my info to the manager the head mechanic walked and I had the chance to ask him a few questions. He said that he'd seen a X in recently for a clutch but hadn't had any reports/complaints of any notchiness in the transmissions.
So, we went for a ride, with the mechanic at the wheel. Of course the first half-mile down the road happened without incident, prompting the "it's a performance car..." speech
. I kept mum about the MTG, and was somewhat regretting the fact that he wasn't experiencing the car at it's worst. Then, after taking off from a stop the tech crunched both the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts and needed no further convincing. We returned to the dealership and I left with the car and a promise that they would look into it.
A day or so later I received a call from the Service Manager, to follow up on the situation. He reported that he had contacted Mitsu tech line and that they said they were aware of the "problem" and were working on a fix; specifically, he said they had been experimenting with different fluids. This is the last I've heard.
Since changing fluids I've put ~2800 miles on the car. While the new fluid cleaned up the shifts a considerable amount, for the first 2000 of the 2800 miles there was little change in the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Thankfully, from about 6000 miles until now, a lot of the notichess has subsided and shifts during "normal" driving can be made without the "crunch" and without having to alter your driving style.
I plan to change the fluid again in a couple hundred miles to see what the plug looks like after 3000 miles with the MTG.
Feedback welcome!
And here's a close-up:
The next day I gave my dealer a call first thing to schedule an appointment. In the meantime I had the chance to see what I thought of the MTG. WOW! Very impressed--shifts are buttery smooth compared to the stock fluid. The difference between the MTG and the stock DiaQueen fluid is night and day.
A day later I was at the dealer to drop the car off. As I was giving my info to the manager the head mechanic walked and I had the chance to ask him a few questions. He said that he'd seen a X in recently for a clutch but hadn't had any reports/complaints of any notchiness in the transmissions.
So, we went for a ride, with the mechanic at the wheel. Of course the first half-mile down the road happened without incident, prompting the "it's a performance car..." speech
. I kept mum about the MTG, and was somewhat regretting the fact that he wasn't experiencing the car at it's worst. Then, after taking off from a stop the tech crunched both the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts and needed no further convincing. We returned to the dealership and I left with the car and a promise that they would look into it.A day or so later I received a call from the Service Manager, to follow up on the situation. He reported that he had contacted Mitsu tech line and that they said they were aware of the "problem" and were working on a fix; specifically, he said they had been experimenting with different fluids. This is the last I've heard.
Since changing fluids I've put ~2800 miles on the car. While the new fluid cleaned up the shifts a considerable amount, for the first 2000 of the 2800 miles there was little change in the 1-2 and 2-3 shifts. Thankfully, from about 6000 miles until now, a lot of the notichess has subsided and shifts during "normal" driving can be made without the "crunch" and without having to alter your driving style.
I plan to change the fluid again in a couple hundred miles to see what the plug looks like after 3000 miles with the MTG.
Feedback welcome!
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Granted the 5 speeds have always been stronger, I can't understand why the rating would be that low. Hell, even in stock form the evo 9 MR made that much torque, so how could that be the limit?
I'd have to guess that when Mitsubishi spec'd the transmission, the 6 speed was built just strong enough to do the job. I don't think that it was ever really intended to replace the 5 speed either because the gearing is too short, the engine doesn't rev high enough to space the gearing out and the fact that the 5 speed has been touted at their "high capacity" transmission and it's common for people to swap the 6 for a 5 all around the world... well maybe except Malaysia.
The promo kit from the manufacturer of the 6 speed shows the torque capacity as a bar graph, and it's shaded in from 260-290ft.lbs. of torque. It's a good transmission and has synchronizers that are WAY more durable than the 5 speed but somewhere in the pursuit of making power you'll find it's limit... much like you will with factory rod bolts.
The 5 speed torque capacity should be around 375ft.lbs. but I think that number is conservative only due to how weak 1st gear is. I mean it could be around 425 if there wasn't issue with that crazy pressure angle of 1st gear creates quite a bit of radial thrust load and wants to pound out the final drive pinion bearing bore. I've bored and sleeved that bearing bore in the past and looked into using a similar pressure angle on the 6 speed 4th gear but I'm concerned about shaft deflection when people think they need to NLTS with their clutch that holds more torque than what is ideal for longevity of the drivetrain.
What do I consider the ideal torque capacity of a clutch for a 5 speed EVO? No more than 15% more than what the engine will make for peak torque but not above 600ft.lbs or you will shorten the drivetrain service life substantially.
As for the 6 speed I'd try to shy away from using it in applications where peak torque will be above 400ft.lbs and NLTS should be avoided.
Back to work!
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From: USA
Good info, thanks. Now that I'm talking to someone who knows their stuff, I've got to pick your brain. For starters, which shaft in the transmission has deflection issues? The input, or the output? I'm guessing the input, as this would see higher levels of stress. Is this only an issue with insane clamp load clutches? What is it about first gear that creates such a strong pressure angle, and why does this put such stress on the final drive pinion bearing bore? Granted, I'm sure you're talking about the 9, because I don't think anyone has built a X tranny up yet, but aside from thicker gear faces and beefier syncros, the X's transmission is very similar so I wonder if these issues affect the X as well. Thanks again for any info.
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Jan 13, 2009 at 11:03 AM.
UPDATE:
I just found the sample I saved from the fluid change! I sent the sample to Oil Analyzers yesterday. The sample was the factory DiaQueen fluid from my first fluid change (when I took the pictures in the OP) with 4000 miles on it. I'll post the results when they arrive.
Also, I changed my transmission fluid again yesterday and have a sample of it ready to be shipped the moment I have another analysis kit. The sample is from my second and most recent fluid change. The sample is AMSOIL MTG (75W-90) with 3500 miles on it. The drain plug had much fewer metal particles this time around and they were smaller in size. I have pictures I'll post as soon as I'm able.
Thanks for reading.
I just found the sample I saved from the fluid change! I sent the sample to Oil Analyzers yesterday. The sample was the factory DiaQueen fluid from my first fluid change (when I took the pictures in the OP) with 4000 miles on it. I'll post the results when they arrive.
Also, I changed my transmission fluid again yesterday and have a sample of it ready to be shipped the moment I have another analysis kit. The sample is from my second and most recent fluid change. The sample is AMSOIL MTG (75W-90) with 3500 miles on it. The drain plug had much fewer metal particles this time around and they were smaller in size. I have pictures I'll post as soon as I'm able.
Thanks for reading.
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My GSR has the the grinding/hard to get in gear when cold issues too.My 04 STi never did this,it was hard to put into gears when -0*, but you couldn't feel it grind.
I really miss the click/click sound when putting into gear from neutral that my old STi mech linkage had and beefy tranny. I may look into the OE STi part # for gearbox oil it and see if the X requires the same type.It is only from Japan too.
I really miss the click/click sound when putting into gear from neutral that my old STi mech linkage had and beefy tranny. I may look into the OE STi part # for gearbox oil it and see if the X requires the same type.It is only from Japan too.