FMIC AMS v. ETS v. Perrin (Discussion)
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From: Cleveland, OH
The issue of the "best FMIC" has been discussed extensively here: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...rcooler-3.html and elsewhere. To me there are some critical variables that should be considered:
(1) pressure drop (as mentioned by Clipse3GT) but at a specified airflow
(2) temperature drop also at a specified flow rate
(3) frontal area relative to same for vehicle (there is only so much area available for direct exchange on any vehicle)
(4) ease of installation (do you have to hack into the the bumper assembly to install; 4" will be more difficult than a 3" wide)
(5) size of FMIC and its influence on engine's radiator efficiency
(6) cost.
The second item is especially important since the X has high temperature inputs as discusssed by Perrin earlier (see their website) due to proximity of the X's exhaust manifold. In an experimental world, it would be really informative to have temp sensors in and out of FMIC for various loads UNDER ROAD CONDITIONS for each vendors core. By so doing, in conjunction with the other items/variables listed above, our decision making would be rather trivial. Unfortunately such testing is unlikely so we will continue to be confused and uncertain when it comes to choosing a FMIC.
I know this little discourse solves nothing but it clearly shows the direction we need to go in: relevant testing under real world conditions.
Later, Ken
(1) pressure drop (as mentioned by Clipse3GT) but at a specified airflow
(2) temperature drop also at a specified flow rate
(3) frontal area relative to same for vehicle (there is only so much area available for direct exchange on any vehicle)
(4) ease of installation (do you have to hack into the the bumper assembly to install; 4" will be more difficult than a 3" wide)
(5) size of FMIC and its influence on engine's radiator efficiency
(6) cost.
The second item is especially important since the X has high temperature inputs as discusssed by Perrin earlier (see their website) due to proximity of the X's exhaust manifold. In an experimental world, it would be really informative to have temp sensors in and out of FMIC for various loads UNDER ROAD CONDITIONS for each vendors core. By so doing, in conjunction with the other items/variables listed above, our decision making would be rather trivial. Unfortunately such testing is unlikely so we will continue to be confused and uncertain when it comes to choosing a FMIC.
I know this little discourse solves nothing but it clearly shows the direction we need to go in: relevant testing under real world conditions.
Later, Ken
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Clipse, I painted an ideal world of desired data; we do not have that but we have more than just a guess. Some of the variables listed above are available such as frontal area (measure how much the X has then any larger than that is not going to contribute significantly to cooling, etc.), ease of install, cost, etc. so with these you can make an educated guess rather than a completely random one.
In my earlier post I was trying to make an appeal to the vendors to provide such relevant data for it is in their interest to do so. If they comply, then clearly those that present all their performance and structural data would be preferable to one that presented only the bare minimum, like dimensions, cost or whether the endtanks are cast or fabricated, etc.
Later, Ken
In my earlier post I was trying to make an appeal to the vendors to provide such relevant data for it is in their interest to do so. If they comply, then clearly those that present all their performance and structural data would be preferable to one that presented only the bare minimum, like dimensions, cost or whether the endtanks are cast or fabricated, etc.
Later, Ken
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Because of all the variables both during the dyno run (temp, humidity, cooling fans, dyno brand,etc.) and individual mode variations(tuned vs untuned, MBC vs OEM, TBE vs OEM, etc), it is difficult, if not impossible, to obtain reliable comparo info. that will enable one to evaluate the FMIC alone.
Later, Ken
Later, Ken
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I contacted AGP to see if they will be willing to do a group buy or a discounted Memorial Day price on their intercoolers, we will see. I'll keep everyone informed.
Because of all the variables both during the dyno run (temp, humidity, cooling fans, dyno brand,etc.) and individual mode variations(tuned vs untuned, MBC vs OEM, TBE vs OEM, etc), it is difficult, if not impossible, to obtain reliable comparo info. that will enable one to evaluate the FMIC alone.
Later, Ken
Later, Ken
And thanks Clipse I loved those guys back with my old car - 50 trim 04 SRT-4
yea the AGP seems to be the one to go with if they lower it again to $500...but AMS, ETS, UR seems to be the best choices at $700/650...I'm not sure which one I'm getting yet either.
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I wanted the AMS one but i couldn't justify spending $250.00 more on the exact same intercooler...AGP IC is actually bigger.
AMS:
699.00 IC
50.00 Tax (required on their site)
50.00 Ship
______________________
800.00 Total
AGP:
550.00 Shipped
No Brainer
Last edited by NyRsNy; May 4, 2009 at 06:50 PM.
Come on, thought this thread was to talk about the specs/gains? Not vendos trying to push their products...anyway i just picked up a intercooler from AGP for 550 shipped
I wanted the AMS one but i couldn't justify spending $250.00 more on the exact same intercooler...AGP IC is actually bigger.
AMS:
699.00 IC
50.00 Tax (required on their site)
50.00 Ship
______________________
800.00 Total
AGP:
550.00 Shipped
No Brainer
I wanted the AMS one but i couldn't justify spending $250.00 more on the exact same intercooler...AGP IC is actually bigger.
AMS:
699.00 IC
50.00 Tax (required on their site)
50.00 Ship
______________________
800.00 Total
AGP:
550.00 Shipped
No Brainer
EX: AMS has a good example of a cast end tank with hand build inlet/outlet. I personally prefer a hand build end tank, but it's very time consuming. The hand built end tank is much lighter then a cast unit and if built correctly welded inside and outside, can hold just as much.
Thanks,
Michael
Last edited by ETS Michael; May 5, 2009 at 08:24 AM.
I think price should be added to the post. It's a pretty big factor and judging by your post it was your main concern as well. One thing to take into note for anyone who uses cast end tanks is how thick the casting is on the inlet/outlet. The average casted end tank that has a 2.5" inlet/outlet only has a 2.0" to 2.25" opening due to the thickness of the casting. I'm not saying this is how AGP builds an intercooler since I have never seen one first hand just throwing that out for anyone interested.
EX: AMS has a good example of a cast end tank with hand build inlet/outlet. I personally prefer a hand build end tank, but it's very time consuming. The hand built end tank is much lighter then a cast unit and if built correctly welded inside and outside, can hold just as much.
Thanks,
Michael
EX: AMS has a good example of a cast end tank with hand build inlet/outlet. I personally prefer a hand build end tank, but it's very time consuming. The hand built end tank is much lighter then a cast unit and if built correctly welded inside and outside, can hold just as much.
Thanks,
Michael
Again sorry, I just wanted to make sure no misinformation was spread.
Eric
Last edited by AutoMotoSports; May 5, 2009 at 02:43 PM. Reason: typos
Come on, thought this thread was to talk about the specs/gains? Not vendos trying to push their products...anyway i just picked up a intercooler from AGP for 550 shipped
I wanted the AMS one but i couldn't justify spending $250.00 more on the exact same intercooler...AGP IC is actually bigger.
AMS:
699.00 IC
50.00 Tax (required on their site)
50.00 Ship
______________________
800.00 Total
AGP:
550.00 Shipped
No Brainer
I wanted the AMS one but i couldn't justify spending $250.00 more on the exact same intercooler...AGP IC is actually bigger.
AMS:
699.00 IC
50.00 Tax (required on their site)
50.00 Ship
______________________
800.00 Total
AGP:
550.00 Shipped
No Brainer
Eric