Hello,

I've been struggling with compressor surge of my FP RED for over 6 monthes.

I bought it May, 2011 so I believe it's current version (except for BB), port jobbed, 3 inches inlet.

I need the Compressor Flow Map for this turbo. Is there anyone knows where to get it? Thank you!

 

since I'm just a newbie for this field, wondering either there are no comressor flow maps for FP RED, or experts know that a flow map is useless for solving the compressor surge like my case?

 

Pretty sure those maps aren't public, for any of the FP stock frame turbos?

You'll probably just have to play with mivec settings until you find the happy medium.

 

My suspicion is that there is truly much less R&D put into Forced Performance turbos than most people have envisioned in their heads... much less, as in there are no compressor maps available, even internally. *oops* Did I say that out loud?

I'm not saying that FP turbos aren't reliable, tried, and true, but I don't understand why they wouldn't publish efficiency maps when Turbonetics, Garrett/Honeywell, MHI, and even IHI all have maps available. The only large turbo manufacturer I know of that doesn't publish compressor maps is Borg-Warner.

 

Interesting on the timing with this MotoIQ article:
http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...bine-maps.aspx

And BW does publish their maps.

 

oh, I see. I didn't know the reality.

perhaps because publishing a flow map takes a lot of costs, only large turbo manufacturer can publish it.

so I have to try everything I can to lower P2/P1, by replacing intake and exhaust pipes, lowering mivec as Beeble says, without plotting on a flow map. It's harder than I thought but I'll try it.

Thanks to you Beeble, UT_EvoX, and spdracerut.

 

Are you sure its compressor surge and not BOV flutter? What BOV are you using and what is the symptoms of your "surge"?

 

Honestly, if I were a 'small' turbo company, why would I invest in the hardware to do the testing? Between all the hardware, EPA regulations, proper environmental permits, leasing of property, etc, it would not surprise if a test cell would cost upwards of a million dollars if not more.

The best option would be to outsource the testing which would probably run a few grand. Okay, so if that testing is outsourced and completed, what's the gain? Well, as FP only does bolt-on turbos and there's not a single bolt-on turbo with a compressor map, there's nothing to compare to say that it's better or worse.

So for the very specific market of bolt-on, application specific turbos, I don't necessarily see the value in a compressor map from the point of view of the small turbo companies.

 

Ha- Keep telling yourself that!

It's a trade secret. Soo many places try and copy FP's design, why would they release that info it would just make copying their turbo's that much easier? Why doesn't Microsoft release the source code to Windows? Trade secret!

They put a lot of time and money into R&D. Call Robert and talk with him for 15 minutes about their new DBB line....



-Bink

 

There's nothing 'trade secret' about compressor wheels. All the OEMs have upwards of a hundred different compressor wheel designs for different purposes.

If someone wanted to copy ANY compressor wheel, it's simple. Buy one, do a 3D scan of it, import that into 3D modeling software, scale it up/down/tweak, send off to your favorite CNC house and you're done.

 

As 'easy' as that sounds, for some reason I don't think it's that easy.


-Bink

 

Is your surge on or off throttle? I was getting off throttle surge, which I fixed by some minor tweaks in the 40-80 load >2750 range of the MIVEC Intake map (depending on your actual map of course).

 

^^I'm inclined to agree, as to the lack of compressor maps being published. This is tantamount to an engine manufacturer not publishing bore/stroke/etc.

 

Exactly. This isn't trade-secret level stuff. A compressor map is way more useful in practice to an end consumer/builder than it is to a competitor. The benefit to your customers far outweighs the slight competitive insight you are giving your competitors.

 

Anyone with a CMM could create a model of that compressor in a matter of hours. Reverse engineering is surprisingly easy if your only intent is to pump out a copy of a product. Where many reverse engineered products go wrong, is when a price-point is lowered the product quality suffers. (Who is going to buy a knock-off FP Red for the same exact price as the real one, even if it performed EXACTLY the same?)

Cheaper materials and manufacturing processes are chosen, costs are cut (ie- servicing machines less often, fewer quality spot checks, looser tolerances, 3rd work country labor, etc) and before you know it, youve opened up your profit margin considerably...

Congratulations, you now have a poor quality product for which you have no technical knowledge, so there is no possibility to improve the current product (or improve upon the original!)

And thats how ebay turbos are born