I am still somewhat unfamiliar with the SST system. I understand the concept behind it, but I still don't see how the car is just as fast if not faster than a manual, especially comming from a stop.

From what I've seen is that you can't brake boost an sst. So basically when you launch the car you launch from idle, which doesn't result in quick 0-60 times.
But when you launch a manual you can drop it from anywhere, including redline, which normally equates to fast 60' times and nice 0-60 times. Also is there more drivetrain loss through the SST resulting in more lost power?

Is this the case, or am I off base?

From what I see is that the cars will be about equal from the factory. But once vendors starting making their upgrades, cars with manuals will be able to better utilize the power gains from the stopped start. True?

 

I've been meaning to ask about this. I remember reading a blurb a short while back somewhere that Mitsubishi is working on a launch control system for the MR/SST. Don't know if this is still the case, or if that was just some rumor, but it would be the answer to your question. Has anyone else read anything about a launch control system?

 

SST transmissions usually have some way to launch. It can be something as simple as a "launch" button, or a quick flick of the paddles to enter launch mode, which would then work just like a two-step, or completely free-rev, depending on how Mitsu designs it. There's a Top Gear episode where Clarkson demonstrates launch control on a dual-clutch Ferrari, but I don't remember what episode it was.

On SSTs, the transmission loss shouldn't be much different from manuals. The torque converter is usually where a lot of power is lost on auto's, and SSTs lack that part. Also, I think the SST will end up being the faster option all around. You can be sure that the aftermarket companies will come out with whatever parts necessary to make sure it can hold power, and flashing will allow you to customize the launch control.

 

Meybe a stupid question about the SST

but do you have to step up your foot from the throttle when you shift...or it electronicaly cut the throttle for you in the process so you can't basically flat shift with an SST???

 

No foot lift and no throttle cut. Read this:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-c...ansmission.htm

 

I belive my friends E46 M3 with the SMG clutch, similar in the aspect that it has a clutch without the clutch pedal, has a launch control.

The ecu holds the rpm up and you get on the pedal to go or maybe he pushed a button im not sure? never driven or been in it just raced it countless times.
Seems to work pretty well though, his launches compare to mine almost an Ive put time and money into getting the perfect launch.

I wouldn't have a doubt that the EXOx will have the same thing, I know most cars with that transmission have a launch control.

The main thing I like is the efficiently have having dual clutches. Maybe not so much on a track, but when im with friends on twisties, I prefer to drive SMG just so I'm not fooling around with the clutch pedal so much in sticky situations.

 

I am 100% positive you guys can run a search on this forum and get your questions answered, especially about the SST.

But anyway, this is straight from Mitsu's mouth:
"MMC’s new automated manual transmission employs dual clutches to realize power transmission efficiencies on a par with a normal manual gearbox while also allowing slick and swift shifting. Allowing drivers of all abilities to shift rapidly up and down through the gears, Twin Clutch SST delivers satisfying acceleration while also returning superior fuel mileage thanks to its high-efficiency power transmission mechanism. The new transmission also features three operating modes tailored to different situations: from around-town drivability to instant-response and follow-the-line sporty motoring on the open road."

"Twin Clutch SST puts odd (1st, 3rd, 5th) and even (2nd, 4th and 6th) gears on separate input shafts, each connected to an individual clutch.With both clutches under precise system control, this arrangement allows lightening-fast, smooth and lag-free gear changes with no interruption in power delivery. Using clutches instead of a torque converter to transmit power makes the Twin Clutch SST simpler in structure and reduces power transmission losses for higher transmission efficiency that leads to improved fuel mileage."
It is EXACTLY like VW's DSG, and again, you can find that out anywhere.

This transmission is nothing like BMW's SMG. SMG still slower than manual. BMW's SMG isn't even a true Sequential Manual Gearbox. A true SMG still uses a clutch and BMW came out with their own version of a quick shifting automatic tranny basically that doesn't work as well as it should, except for launches.

I have no idea if U.S. spec models will have it, but if not, it will probably very easy to get.

This transmission shifts faster than you can lift your foot off of the throttle. VW's DSG shifts in 8 milliseconds. . .to help you figure out how fast that is, a Ferrari 360 Scuderia shifts in 60 milliseconds.

Also, F.Y.I., the new EVO (with the manual tranny) limits the revs to 5500 when the car is not moving (or when clutch is depressed) to protect the drivetrain, especially for launches.

I could be wrong about this, but I don't think anyone really brake boosts anymore, especially in an AWD car, that seems kind pointless to me, especially when the car comes with a mechanism specifically designed for launching which the SST more than likely will.

ksuchewie, your assmumption about the manuals being better for upgrades is fair, but not because they will be "better able to utilize" but because they are simply stronger and less expensive to fix if something should go wrong. Also this dual clutch transmissions are still very new and no one knows how they can handle power increases. . .yet. It may turn out to be better than the manual. . .highly unlikely, but you never know, we'll have to wait and see.

There is no question the SST will be fast around a track and twisties, no human can come close to shifting that fast up or down and the tranny can't miss a gear.

And finally, Car and Driver had this to say about your question:
"The dual-clutch model won't be quicker off the line than the manual car because the launch control doesn't use all the available power in the interest of safeguarding the driveline. But don't judge the MR strictly by its straight-line numbers—the Evo X is much faster along a curving road than the old car. "

 

Simple version:

SST is NOT an automatic so it doesn't sap power like an automatic.

It's like 2 manuals controlled by a robot. Since it's a manual, it's fast like a manual, but since the robot can shift and work the clutch faster than you ever could, it ends up faster!

 

I like how you explained SST in such a simple fashion, I think even a 5 year old would understand what you are saying.

 

lol yea that was pretty understanding and simple lol. sum'd everything up in less than 100 words

 

+1

 

Does anyone know if the SST will hold a gear while hitting the rev limiter, or will it automatically shift to the next gear even if you do not iniate it the gear change by flicking the paddle?

 

The gear will hold until the engine blows up...

but seriously, if you watch any of the evo x videos, the gear doesn't change even when it hits fuel cut off, which is at 7,600 RPM.

 

I have this image of a little robot worker running around in an EVO X gear box

 

I was watching this video "Click Here" and the majority of the time the car was shifting itself, and on occassion the driver would shift via paddle or shift lever, but it looked like if he didn't the car would. I like the idea of getting the SST, but if I want to hit off rev limiter, then let me do it, I don't want the car shifting for me. I guess time will tell for sure, once someone gets one, and can confirm, if the driver can have complete control of when the car shifts.

If you can post a link to one of these video's of the car hitting fuel cut, and not shifting, I would appreciate it. If I could see some video of it, I would feel alot better.