Fifth Gear pits Ford Focus RS vs. Mitsubishi Evo X
Jun 15, 2009, 03:27 PM
#91
According to you, in bizarro world, I guess so. The fact that real racing teams that compete in professional rally don't waste their time with BS cars like Neons, Civics and USDM focus' is more important. The fact that rules keep cars with turbo engines and AWD from competing head to head with N/A FWDs so the latter don't get beat up on is also important.
Jun 15, 2009, 03:35 PM
#93
Evolved Member
If you want to use WRC as the pinnacle of racing, the current champs aren't japanese but european (Peugeot and Citroen) or american (Ford). Once again, how is this at all relevant?
So people in heavily modified Evos are winning rallies, great, I would expect nothing less from the Evo, but does this suddenly undermine the previously mentioned tests?
So a more expensive car can be modded to be faster, the cheaper car is still cheaper and fast.
Such hypocrisy.
Last edited by GPTourer; Jun 15, 2009 at 03:41 PM.
Jun 15, 2009, 03:51 PM
#95
What does this mean? Don't mix SCCA and this, different politics, differnet sanctioning body, etc. You evade and muddle things once you realize you're wrong by bringing up something totally different and unrelated.
It probably helps that Mitsubishi, Subaru, Suzuki, and Toyota are no longer competing. And yes, WRC is the pinnacle of rally racing, since we are talking about rally cars it would follow to talk about WRC. But I used Group-N because those cars are much closer to stock cars then a $500,000 WRC car.
No, I imagine there are people with lightly modded old beater Evos in other countries winning rallies on the grassroots level too. The road tests show that a Cobalt was able to beat an Evo once on that track on that day, but all other data and tests show the stock Evo X to be a faster car then the Cobalt SS. Modded X's will destroy modded SS's.
This coming from the guy who jumps any Ralliart owner being proud of their car for beating a more expensive one. Suddenly its okay to mod a FWD car to rally and that it could be just as good as an Evo, but anyone modding their RA to be fast against say, a Vette on a drag strip is wrong.
Such hypocrisy.
It probably helps that Mitsubishi, Subaru, Suzuki, and Toyota are no longer competing. And yes, WRC is the pinnacle of rally racing, since we are talking about rally cars it would follow to talk about WRC. But I used Group-N because those cars are much closer to stock cars then a $500,000 WRC car.
No, I imagine there are people with lightly modded old beater Evos in other countries winning rallies on the grassroots level too. The road tests show that a Cobalt was able to beat an Evo once on that track on that day, but all other data and tests show the stock Evo X to be a faster car then the Cobalt SS. Modded X's will destroy modded SS's.
This coming from the guy who jumps any Ralliart owner being proud of their car for beating a more expensive one. Suddenly its okay to mod a FWD car to rally and that it could be just as good as an Evo, but anyone modding their RA to be fast against say, a Vette on a drag strip is wrong.
Such hypocrisy.
Even when Mitsubishi and Subaru were competing, they weren't winning, at least not in the last few years.
Actually there were two separate tracks, on two separate days with I believe two separate drivers where the Cobalt was more or less just as fast as the Evo. Even at the Nurburgring, the Cobalt was 11 seconds off the Evo, hardly an *** kicking.
And when have I jumped at Ralliart owners for legitimately beating more expensive cars? If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, it's the situation where an individual attempted to pit their Ralliart against a Corvette.
Seriously, where the **** did I say "well sure the Evo is faster but you can mod the Cobalt to make up for it"? Seriously, show me. I said
Any car can be built into a rally car though, it's somewhat naive to continually say "well it's a street driven rally car" when it's not. It would have to be heavily modified to participate in rally. Hell, people might as well argue that their Civics are street driven rally cars since Civics are common rally platforms.
Jun 15, 2009, 03:58 PM
#97
Evolved Member
There are plenty of racing classes where the Evo isn't competitive, why? Because the modifications that are allowed are too restrictive or too strongly favor someone else.
In the world of rally, there's no way a FWD car can beat an AWD car in open class, it just can't happen.
Again, how is this relevant to this thread?
Even at the Nurburgring, the Cobalt was 11 seconds off the Evo, hardly an *** kicking.
Jun 15, 2009, 04:08 PM
#98
Its a whole other issue, and it doesn't have anything to do with the car. You simply are incapable of understanding.
That would be politcs that I alluded to above. You act like you understand, but you lose your way so easily.
They made AWD Aerostars, so they would beat your freinds rally prepped Focus? Evos have more to them then just AWD, they were built for going rallying in mind, competition in general. IF people had easy access to old Evos in this country, like a few grand for ten-fifteen year old IIIs, IVS, Vs or VIs, I promise you they wouldn't be ****ing around with trying to make a Civic or Focus good at rally.
You tell me you're the one who brings stuff like this up to try to "prove" your point.
Subjective, especially when coming from the guy who seeks to put down Mitsus on a Mitsu site.
That would be politcs that I alluded to above. You act like you understand, but you lose your way so easily.
They made AWD Aerostars, so they would beat your freinds rally prepped Focus? Evos have more to them then just AWD, they were built for going rallying in mind, competition in general. IF people had easy access to old Evos in this country, like a few grand for ten-fifteen year old IIIs, IVS, Vs or VIs, I promise you they wouldn't be ****ing around with trying to make a Civic or Focus good at rally.
You tell me you're the one who brings stuff like this up to try to "prove" your point.
Subjective, especially when coming from the guy who seeks to put down Mitsus on a Mitsu site.
Evos were not build for rallying, they're a street car through and through. Are Evos rallied? Sure, are they are good platform? Sure but the one you buy from Mitsubishi is no more a rally car than an RSX is a purpose-built SCCA contender.
Actually I didn't bring this up. I mentioned it once and it went unnoticed and no one seemed to bat an eye or go off on some tangent about rallying until you showed up.
How am I putting down Mitsubishi, by posting up hard numbers? Have I said that Mitsubishi sucks? Nope, in fact I've posted these gems
I genuinely like the Evo X a lot and if I had waited (they weren't in Canada when I sold my car) I likely would have bought one but I don't feel the need to jump to its defense every time another car uses the same formula (cheap power) and beats it in some shape or form. So the Cobalt is faster, so what? If people are that concerned and feel the need to either A. deny the results or B. provide excuses for the Evo, they should just sell their car now.
It's important to note that I have nothing against the Evo, I really like the Evo and was genuinely impressed at how quick it was at the track even with a terrible driver but that doesn't mean I have to accept the insecure BS threads like this tend to breed. So a different car is quicker stock for cheap, it's not the end of the world and it was bound to happen eventually.
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