Cobb tune void warranty ?
Well I took my X MR to get the factory recall reflash and they never mentioned a thing. This is after having my Cobb AP for a couple months and I travel alot around Texas so I switch maps for different oct levels all the time.
That pothole you hit after you pulled off the lot of the dealership... voided the warranty. Its sad, but on every thread on evom that you see someone always gets screwed by the dealership on warranty stuff.
The best quote I have seen on a warranty thread, I am not sure who said it, was "Evos have a 36 minute / 36 mile warranty"
^+1 FMIC voids the warranty
The best quote I have seen on a warranty thread, I am not sure who said it, was "Evos have a 36 minute / 36 mile warranty"
^+1 FMIC voids the warranty
When I had my 02 RSX I was having problem with burning a lot of oil. So i took into the dealership they said no problem will take look and see what going on. Later on that day they called me and said that they would have to tear down the engine and check the block. Sure enough one of the cylinder walls had a deep scratch and they said that's what was causing it....So they said they would need to replace the block and it would be covered under warranty.However later that day they said ACURA declined my repair because my vehicle was modified. ALL I HAD DONE TO MY VEHICLE AT THAT TIME WAS COILOVERS,AEM INTAKE AND DC HEADER.....they tried to blame it on the air filter..Can you believe it! They also made me pay $800 for the engine tear down out of pocket. I tried to argue the mods and brought up the magnussen moss act and they just said I would have to go through all this red tape and appeals process to fight it. It really wasn't worth my time and money to fight it.
Dealerships will find any excuse to get out of covering a serious repair IMO!
Dealerships will find any excuse to get out of covering a serious repair IMO!
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: Austin TX
OK then I have a coupla questions. I came to the mitsu after owning several pcars and a bmws, and neither dealer seemed to be terribly concerned about mods. In fact, I had the dealer install Porsche Motorsport parts on my GT3, and they knew I tracked it. So dealer hostility regarding reasonable mods is new to me:
1. Why would a dealer give a damn about mods? It's not costing the dealer money to fix a broken part; rather, they *make* money doing warranty work (at least that's how bmw works). Is Mitsu warranty work like HMOs? THat is, the dealer gets xxx dollars per year from which to do warranty work whether it does the work or not, and then is motivated to tell owners to go fawk themselves? Is there a different punishment mechanism that Mitsu has in place for the dealers?
2. True cost of losing your powertrain warranty? Any thoughts on the wallet impact on losing your powertrain warranty? My main concern here, is that if you mod, knowing that you lose your warranty, are independent shops even up to speed on these cars yet? New chassis, new motor, I'm concerned that the clean sheet design would be tougher for independent shops to service than the prior gen Evos.
1. Why would a dealer give a damn about mods? It's not costing the dealer money to fix a broken part; rather, they *make* money doing warranty work (at least that's how bmw works). Is Mitsu warranty work like HMOs? THat is, the dealer gets xxx dollars per year from which to do warranty work whether it does the work or not, and then is motivated to tell owners to go fawk themselves? Is there a different punishment mechanism that Mitsu has in place for the dealers?
2. True cost of losing your powertrain warranty? Any thoughts on the wallet impact on losing your powertrain warranty? My main concern here, is that if you mod, knowing that you lose your warranty, are independent shops even up to speed on these cars yet? New chassis, new motor, I'm concerned that the clean sheet design would be tougher for independent shops to service than the prior gen Evos.
tl;dr version:
1) if you signed a binding arbitration clause, you're SOL
2) no warrantor can say you cant use 3rd party parts in their product to maintain warranty. But if you do and THAT PART clearly causes an issue, then they can refuse WARRANTY work
3) Being a limited warranty vs a full warranty doesn't matter
4) Ambiguities in warranty descriptions are always beneficial to the consumer, not the warrantor
If you ever have a dealer claim that they've voided your warranty when the work you were having done was not related to any warranty work, go home and go through your paperwork you singed when you bought the car. Look for a binding arbitration clause. If you signed anything with a binding arbitration clause, you're SOL. You can't sue the dealership or manufacturer for violating the Magnuson-Moss Act. Instead, you can request that the dealership let the outcome of your claim be decided by 'a neutral 3rd party' who the dealer has hired, which is a contradiction because the 3rd party desires return business from the dealer and thus loses its neutral standing since they'll have a financial incentive to please the dealer, not the consumer. NEVER EVER SIGN A BINDING ARBITRATION CLAUSE. NO ONE CAN REFUSE YOU SALE IF YOU DONT
If you did NOT sign an arbitration clause, then take them to small claims court if they refuse to work on your car and honor the warranty. Think of a computer. If you buy a Dell and the hard drive dies, and you buy one at Best Buy to get it back up and running, can Dell void your warranty on the RAM? No, unless you physically damaged it when installing the hard drive. Same goes for car parts. And they cant do it preemptively. This is called a tie-in-sale, where the warantor tries to force the consumer to only use their production in conjunction with the warranties product, and it is absolutely illegal.
Being a limited warranty does not matter. It's limited because its non-transferable after initial sale, and because it expires after a given time or mileage. It's also limited because in order to not be, the dealer would have to offer a full refund of the product for ANY warranty issues. And because they cant offer a full warranty without offering free oil changes and all scheduled maintenance on their dime.
Also, keep in mind that any wording in the warranty that is ambiguous is to be interpreted in favor of the consumer. Anything that uses excessive legal speak can also be disregarded.
Some good info: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/busi...#Magnuson-Moss
1) if you signed a binding arbitration clause, you're SOL
2) no warrantor can say you cant use 3rd party parts in their product to maintain warranty. But if you do and THAT PART clearly causes an issue, then they can refuse WARRANTY work
3) Being a limited warranty vs a full warranty doesn't matter
4) Ambiguities in warranty descriptions are always beneficial to the consumer, not the warrantor
If you ever have a dealer claim that they've voided your warranty when the work you were having done was not related to any warranty work, go home and go through your paperwork you singed when you bought the car. Look for a binding arbitration clause. If you signed anything with a binding arbitration clause, you're SOL. You can't sue the dealership or manufacturer for violating the Magnuson-Moss Act. Instead, you can request that the dealership let the outcome of your claim be decided by 'a neutral 3rd party' who the dealer has hired, which is a contradiction because the 3rd party desires return business from the dealer and thus loses its neutral standing since they'll have a financial incentive to please the dealer, not the consumer. NEVER EVER SIGN A BINDING ARBITRATION CLAUSE. NO ONE CAN REFUSE YOU SALE IF YOU DONT
If you did NOT sign an arbitration clause, then take them to small claims court if they refuse to work on your car and honor the warranty. Think of a computer. If you buy a Dell and the hard drive dies, and you buy one at Best Buy to get it back up and running, can Dell void your warranty on the RAM? No, unless you physically damaged it when installing the hard drive. Same goes for car parts. And they cant do it preemptively. This is called a tie-in-sale, where the warantor tries to force the consumer to only use their production in conjunction with the warranties product, and it is absolutely illegal.
Being a limited warranty does not matter. It's limited because its non-transferable after initial sale, and because it expires after a given time or mileage. It's also limited because in order to not be, the dealer would have to offer a full refund of the product for ANY warranty issues. And because they cant offer a full warranty without offering free oil changes and all scheduled maintenance on their dime.
Also, keep in mind that any wording in the warranty that is ambiguous is to be interpreted in favor of the consumer. Anything that uses excessive legal speak can also be disregarded.
Some good info: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/busi...#Magnuson-Moss
tl;dr version:
1) if you signed a binding arbitration clause, you're SOL
2) no warrantor can say you cant use 3rd party parts in their product to maintain warranty. But if you do and THAT PART clearly causes an issue, then they can refuse WARRANTY work
3) Being a limited warranty vs a full warranty doesn't matter
4) Ambiguities in warranty descriptions are always beneficial to the consumer, not the warrantor
If you ever have a dealer claim that they've voided your warranty when the work you were having done was not related to any warranty work, go home and go through your paperwork you singed when you bought the car. Look for a binding arbitration clause. If you signed anything with a binding arbitration clause, you're SOL. You can't sue the dealership or manufacturer for violating the Magnuson-Moss Act. Instead, you can request that the dealership let the outcome of your claim be decided by 'a neutral 3rd party' who the dealer has hired, which is a contradiction because the 3rd party desires return business from the dealer and thus loses its neutral standing since they'll have a financial incentive to please the dealer, not the consumer. NEVER EVER SIGN A BINDING ARBITRATION CLAUSE. NO ONE CAN REFUSE YOU SALE IF YOU DONT
If you did NOT sign an arbitration clause, then take them to small claims court if they refuse to work on your car and honor the warranty. Think of a computer. If you buy a Dell and the hard drive dies, and you buy one at Best Buy to get it back up and running, can Dell void your warranty on the RAM? No, unless you physically damaged it when installing the hard drive. Same goes for car parts. And they cant do it preemptively. This is called a tie-in-sale, where the warantor tries to force the consumer to only use their production in conjunction with the warranties product, and it is absolutely illegal.
Being a limited warranty does not matter. It's limited because its non-transferable after initial sale, and because it expires after a given time or mileage. It's also limited because in order to not be, the dealer would have to offer a full refund of the product for ANY warranty issues. And because they cant offer a full warranty without offering free oil changes and all scheduled maintenance on their dime.
Also, keep in mind that any wording in the warranty that is ambiguous is to be interpreted in favor of the consumer. Anything that uses excessive legal speak can also be disregarded.
Some good info: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/busi...#Magnuson-Moss
1) if you signed a binding arbitration clause, you're SOL
2) no warrantor can say you cant use 3rd party parts in their product to maintain warranty. But if you do and THAT PART clearly causes an issue, then they can refuse WARRANTY work
3) Being a limited warranty vs a full warranty doesn't matter
4) Ambiguities in warranty descriptions are always beneficial to the consumer, not the warrantor
If you ever have a dealer claim that they've voided your warranty when the work you were having done was not related to any warranty work, go home and go through your paperwork you singed when you bought the car. Look for a binding arbitration clause. If you signed anything with a binding arbitration clause, you're SOL. You can't sue the dealership or manufacturer for violating the Magnuson-Moss Act. Instead, you can request that the dealership let the outcome of your claim be decided by 'a neutral 3rd party' who the dealer has hired, which is a contradiction because the 3rd party desires return business from the dealer and thus loses its neutral standing since they'll have a financial incentive to please the dealer, not the consumer. NEVER EVER SIGN A BINDING ARBITRATION CLAUSE. NO ONE CAN REFUSE YOU SALE IF YOU DONT
If you did NOT sign an arbitration clause, then take them to small claims court if they refuse to work on your car and honor the warranty. Think of a computer. If you buy a Dell and the hard drive dies, and you buy one at Best Buy to get it back up and running, can Dell void your warranty on the RAM? No, unless you physically damaged it when installing the hard drive. Same goes for car parts. And they cant do it preemptively. This is called a tie-in-sale, where the warantor tries to force the consumer to only use their production in conjunction with the warranties product, and it is absolutely illegal.
Being a limited warranty does not matter. It's limited because its non-transferable after initial sale, and because it expires after a given time or mileage. It's also limited because in order to not be, the dealer would have to offer a full refund of the product for ANY warranty issues. And because they cant offer a full warranty without offering free oil changes and all scheduled maintenance on their dime.
Also, keep in mind that any wording in the warranty that is ambiguous is to be interpreted in favor of the consumer. Anything that uses excessive legal speak can also be disregarded.
Some good info: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/busi...#Magnuson-Moss
Newbie
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Round Rock, TX
Simple explanation: An arbitration clause is part of a contract where you sign away your right to sue someone (or a business) and agree to use arbitration as described above to resolve any disputes that may arise.
what should we look for when signing the paperwork? Im sire there are numerious fomrs that need to be signed.... How will we be able to spot the binding arbitration from the others?
Evolving Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: NC
I signed one when I bought my Evo. It was clearly named "Arbitration Clause." They made it sound mandatory...sucks that I just learned that it wasn't. I actually "had" to sign one on all 3 cars I've purchased from a dealership.
wow. good to know. So you are not required to sign it??
though.
Do we know if the original poster "unmarried" the AP before the dealer visit? Does anyone whave personal experience with the AP really undectable if this has been done? Does anyon know how easy is it for the dealer to find an ECU flash if you put the stock map back on before a visit?
Thanks
Thanks
Uh, yeah, 
Because you pay a lot more than just for those extra parts for the car...
My favorite quote too.
I'd have "voided" your warranty too! Intake and header and you expected them to repair the problem!?
Porsche is 100x better than Mitsubishi. I got stuff covered on my 10 year old Porsche. You also put Porsche Motorsports parts on the car... Porsche being the key word. If you put aftermarket stuff I'm sure Porsche would be angry. Subaru lets you do whatever the hell you want with SPT parts, including their springs (which ruin the struts after awhile, warranty!)
1) The dealer usually doesn't, MMNA does... Why? They need money and can't afford to repair your broken car, so they get out of it any way they can. Don't believe me, well I was one of the first... If they can't deny your suspension for your tune because of the MM act, they'll just deny it based on consumer neglect, stating that because you have a tune you've likely pushed the car too hard.
2) 8 grand for me (new motor). No mods either, just denied based on "consumer neglect" Car had oil starvation under the first 3k miles.
Even if you aren't required... Do you want to buy the car?
If you're worried about your warranty, don't do it, end of story. COBB says that by unmarrying it they shouldn't be able to detect it, but who knows. They shouldn't be able to detect it if you flash back to stock and don't unmarry it either, even with EcuFlash. All it shows (as far as we all know) is the flash count, and they can't prove you got a tune in all those flashes.
I'd have "voided" your warranty too! Intake and header and you expected them to repair the problem!?OK then I have a coupla questions. I came to the mitsu after owning several pcars and a bmws, and neither dealer seemed to be terribly concerned about mods. In fact, I had the dealer install Porsche Motorsport parts on my GT3, and they knew I tracked it. So dealer hostility regarding reasonable mods is new to me:
1. Why would a dealer give a damn about mods? It's not costing the dealer money to fix a broken part; rather, they *make* money doing warranty work (at least that's how bmw works). Is Mitsu warranty work like HMOs? THat is, the dealer gets xxx dollars per year from which to do warranty work whether it does the work or not, and then is motivated to tell owners to go fawk themselves? Is there a different punishment mechanism that Mitsu has in place for the dealers?
2. True cost of losing your powertrain warranty? Any thoughts on the wallet impact on losing your powertrain warranty? My main concern here, is that if you mod, knowing that you lose your warranty, are independent shops even up to speed on these cars yet? New chassis, new motor, I'm concerned that the clean sheet design would be tougher for independent shops to service than the prior gen Evos.
1. Why would a dealer give a damn about mods? It's not costing the dealer money to fix a broken part; rather, they *make* money doing warranty work (at least that's how bmw works). Is Mitsu warranty work like HMOs? THat is, the dealer gets xxx dollars per year from which to do warranty work whether it does the work or not, and then is motivated to tell owners to go fawk themselves? Is there a different punishment mechanism that Mitsu has in place for the dealers?
2. True cost of losing your powertrain warranty? Any thoughts on the wallet impact on losing your powertrain warranty? My main concern here, is that if you mod, knowing that you lose your warranty, are independent shops even up to speed on these cars yet? New chassis, new motor, I'm concerned that the clean sheet design would be tougher for independent shops to service than the prior gen Evos.
You also put Porsche Motorsports parts on the car... Porsche being the key word. If you put aftermarket stuff I'm sure Porsche would be angry. Subaru lets you do whatever the hell you want with SPT parts, including their springs (which ruin the struts after awhile, warranty!)1) The dealer usually doesn't, MMNA does... Why? They need money and can't afford to repair your broken car, so they get out of it any way they can. Don't believe me, well I was one of the first... If they can't deny your suspension for your tune because of the MM act, they'll just deny it based on consumer neglect, stating that because you have a tune you've likely pushed the car too hard.
2) 8 grand for me (new motor). No mods either, just denied based on "consumer neglect" Car had oil starvation under the first 3k miles.
Even if you aren't required... Do you want to buy the car?
Do we know if the original poster "unmarried" the AP before the dealer visit? Does anyone whave personal experience with the AP really undectable if this has been done? Does anyon know how easy is it for the dealer to find an ECU flash if you put the stock map back on before a visit?
Thanks
Thanks