Coil Over?
Robispec FTW.
Why?
1. Not just track tested...Race tested. Race cars tear stuff up on a regular basis, stuff that will last a lifetime on the street. We beat it up, Robi makes it better.
2. Double Adjustable...another tool that lets Robi really dial in the car to its limits and the driver's preferences.
3. Race capable. While most people won't race on Robi's coilovers, they will start to feel the need for stiffer springs and better track performance. Robi's KWs can handle 800lb springs lapping continuously, hour after hour. I've not seen another shock in the $2k price range that even comes close to the capabilities of the Robi KWs. Everything else in the class falls apart starting at 400lb/in, not nearly enough for the heavy Evo X.
4. Last, but certainly not least, Robi. At this point, I think Robi may have setup more Evo suspensions than anyone else in the country. He will give you exactly what you want, using the massive amount of performance data he gets from race cars around the country in Road Race, Time Attack, and AutoX venues.
Why?
1. Not just track tested...Race tested. Race cars tear stuff up on a regular basis, stuff that will last a lifetime on the street. We beat it up, Robi makes it better.
2. Double Adjustable...another tool that lets Robi really dial in the car to its limits and the driver's preferences.
3. Race capable. While most people won't race on Robi's coilovers, they will start to feel the need for stiffer springs and better track performance. Robi's KWs can handle 800lb springs lapping continuously, hour after hour. I've not seen another shock in the $2k price range that even comes close to the capabilities of the Robi KWs. Everything else in the class falls apart starting at 400lb/in, not nearly enough for the heavy Evo X.
4. Last, but certainly not least, Robi. At this point, I think Robi may have setup more Evo suspensions than anyone else in the country. He will give you exactly what you want, using the massive amount of performance data he gets from race cars around the country in Road Race, Time Attack, and AutoX venues.
join the club...Stance has all the same capabilities plus they are the only set of coilovers BELOW the $2k price range that out performed the capabilities of the KW's.
Get with Stance and their DTM spec coilover and you won't loose just like DTM didn't in TTR with their street class car at the 2007 NASA Nationals.
Either way you can't really go wrong with either set. One is just going to hurt the pocket book a little bit more.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: The big wide world
We have the new EXE-TC units avalaible for the X
www.exe-tc.co.uk
World Rally Champions 2001 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007
www.exe-tc.co.uk
World Rally Champions 2001 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007
What do you mean by this? "Stiffness" is generally determined by two factors... spring rate and damping characterics (ignoring swaybars).
Your static ride height doesn't have much to do with how stiff the car feels - especially if you're not changing the actual suspension components and affecting how much travel you have (raising or lowering your spring perches with coilover suspension doesn't change travel).
Your static ride height doesn't have much to do with how stiff the car feels - especially if you're not changing the actual suspension components and affecting how much travel you have (raising or lowering your spring perches with coilover suspension doesn't change travel).
on the one I saw
Yes, that's the adjustable spring perch. All I was trying to explain is that changing the car's ride height by adjusting the spring perches won't affect how the car rides or how "stiff" it is.
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 202
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What do you mean by this? "Stiffness" is generally determined by two factors... spring rate and damping characterics (ignoring swaybars).
Your static ride height doesn't have much to do with how stiff the car feels - especially if you're not changing the actual suspension components and affecting how much travel you have (raising or lowering your spring perches with coilover suspension doesn't change travel).
Your static ride height doesn't have much to do with how stiff the car feels - especially if you're not changing the actual suspension components and affecting how much travel you have (raising or lowering your spring perches with coilover suspension doesn't change travel).
Also, 'stiffness' is certainly affected by ride height, not just the spring rate. Not stiffness while you are going straight down the road, but effective roll stiffness in a turn. When you lower and raise a car, you change the distance between the roll center and center of gravity, making a shorter or longer 'lever' that tries to roll the car. Raising and lowering a car will change the amount of body roll or 'lean' you experience in a turn, and greatly affects how stiff the car feels as you turn the wheel.
Last edited by ustcc evo; Mar 16, 2008 at 10:58 AM.
There is a bit more to it than this. As you lower the car with spring perches on the coilover, you will lower the amount of effective wheel travel available to you as the top of the strut body gets closer to the camber plates. On my Evo we had to mount the camber plates on top of the strut tower instead of underneath in order to have enough travel.
Also, 'stiffness' is certainly affected by ride height, not just the spring rate. Not stiffness while you are going straight down the road, but effective roll stiffness in a turn. When you lower and raise a car, you change the distance between the roll center and center of gravity, making a shorter or longer 'lever' that tries to roll the car. Raising and lowering a car will change the amount of body roll or 'lean' you experience in a turn, and greatly affects how stiff the car feels as you turn the wheel.
Also, 'stiffness' is certainly affected by ride height, not just the spring rate. Not stiffness while you are going straight down the road, but effective roll stiffness in a turn. When you lower and raise a car, you change the distance between the roll center and center of gravity, making a shorter or longer 'lever' that tries to roll the car. Raising and lowering a car will change the amount of body roll or 'lean' you experience in a turn, and greatly affects how stiff the car feels as you turn the wheel.
on some coil over when you drop the car you are making the spring softer which is what gives you more roll. The roll reducce the surface of tire on the pavement and transfer more mass to the outside of your corner.
Witht the same stifness on a given spring lowering the car means lower center of gravity.
lowering your center of gravity will let your car accept more G.
The center of gravity of a car in a corner must stay inside the tire.
on your second point I disagree with you.
on some coil over when you drop the car you are making the spring softer which is what gives you more roll. The roll reducce the surface of tire on the pavement and transfer more mass to the outside of your corner.
Witht the same stifness on a given spring lowering the car means lower center of gravity.
lowering your center of gravity will let your car accept more G.
The center of gravity of a car in a corner must stay inside the tire.
on some coil over when you drop the car you are making the spring softer which is what gives you more roll. The roll reducce the surface of tire on the pavement and transfer more mass to the outside of your corner.
Witht the same stifness on a given spring lowering the car means lower center of gravity.
lowering your center of gravity will let your car accept more G.
The center of gravity of a car in a corner must stay inside the tire.
A couple additions to this for those who are new to coilovers. With better coilovers, height adjustment is done by lengthening the strut bodies rather than moving the spring perches up and down, which preserves suspension travel with ride height adjustments. And on your second point, it's important to keep in mind that sometimes lowering the car actually makes the car roll more due to the relative changes to the roll center and center of gravity, despite the lower center of gravity.
EVERY one of these shocks has BOTH REDUCED total travel almost no droop and PRESET damping curves which can be made harder or softer BUT NOT ADJUSTED (no amount of Kricks right or left changes the SHAPE of curve one bit) as to the way they DAMPEN the wheel movement.
You talk like an expert care to mention your schooling?
PS good choice of driver at NASA Nats.
Last edited by robi; Mar 17, 2008 at 08:59 AM.
I'm no expert at all and I didn't mean to suggest that I was, nor am I speaking on behalf of DTM. I'm a customer, not an employee. If you want to correct what I'm saying, feel free. Your reply comes off as if I were attacking something you said, which I wasn't aware that I did?
Do you agree with what smoke90 wrote about lowering the car making the springs softer, or is there something inaccurate in what I wrote about the relative change in COG/roll center positions when lowering the front of an Evo?
I just don't understand why your post is so combative?
Do you agree with what smoke90 wrote about lowering the car making the springs softer, or is there something inaccurate in what I wrote about the relative change in COG/roll center positions when lowering the front of an Evo?
I just don't understand why your post is so combative?
Last edited by EVO8LTW; Mar 17, 2008 at 09:43 AM. Reason: typo
Please name me ONE triple or high end double adjustable coilover with "adjustable length strut bodies" (I'm looking at the DMS, Moton, JRZ, Penske's,KW's and EUROPEAN Olins in my Garage Shop and NOT ONE is adjustable "length" (not the Asian parts built under license to olins). These adjustable length "insert" shocks are the CHEAP "erector set" (for those of you old enough to remember building things from prebuilt parts) use insert from bin "a" with attachments from bin c-x and WOW we have a new suspension application!!! WOo Hoo!
EVERY one of these shocks has BOTH REDUCED total travel almost no droop and PRESET damping curves which can be made harder or softer BUT NOT ADJUSTED (no amount of Kricks right or left changes the SHAPE of curve one bit) as to the way they DAMPEN the wheel movement.
You talk like an expert care to mention your schooling?
PS good choice of driver at NASA Nats.
EVERY one of these shocks has BOTH REDUCED total travel almost no droop and PRESET damping curves which can be made harder or softer BUT NOT ADJUSTED (no amount of Kricks right or left changes the SHAPE of curve one bit) as to the way they DAMPEN the wheel movement.
You talk like an expert care to mention your schooling?
PS good choice of driver at NASA Nats.
If your quote about the driver pic is aimed at us, then just say so.
Don't come out attacking someone who has no clue about what or how we chose our subject.
If you want to get into the Nationals we can. but this blatent BS post is just that BS. I expect better from you Robert.
As far as the Stance coilover design is concerned, I think you are misrepresenting the facts to suit your needs. We both know what the advantage is of adjusting length over spring preload. If you choose to go into specifics then let talk specifics. Leave the semantics out of it.
I'm no expert at all and I didn't mean to suggest that I was, nor am I speaking on behalf of DTM. I'm a customer, not an employee. If you want to correct what I'm saying, feel free. Your reply comes off as if I were attacking something you said, which I wasn't aware that I did?
Do you agree with what smoke90 wrote about lowering the car making the springs softer, or is there something inaccurate in what I wrote about the relative change in COG/roll center positions when lowering the front of an Evo?
I just don't understand why your post is so combative?
Do you agree with what smoke90 wrote about lowering the car making the springs softer, or is there something inaccurate in what I wrote about the relative change in COG/roll center positions when lowering the front of an Evo?
I just don't understand why your post is so combative?
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 202
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I think I understand Robi's point of view.
The fact that DTM won a time trial in TTR at Nationals on reasonably priced coilovers is certainly something to be proud of and is a good start to proving the equipment on the track...where we should do the proving.
I think, however, Robi is baiting DTM to come and run in something a little more demanding on the hardware. Road Racing, especially endurance racing, asks a little more out of the hardware than time attack; things like resistance to shock fade, durability, tire management, and the quality of the driver experience all become a much larger factor when you need 600 fast laps, not just one.
The fact that DTM won a time trial in TTR at Nationals on reasonably priced coilovers is certainly something to be proud of and is a good start to proving the equipment on the track...where we should do the proving.
I think, however, Robi is baiting DTM to come and run in something a little more demanding on the hardware. Road Racing, especially endurance racing, asks a little more out of the hardware than time attack; things like resistance to shock fade, durability, tire management, and the quality of the driver experience all become a much larger factor when you need 600 fast laps, not just one.