Glad you spoke up - we handle most of the good low end and nearly all the high end units and your statement is 100% true. Of course with Ohlins, Penskes and KONI different pistons are easily obtained to change that curve shape - others not so readily available but still out there. BTW sure you meant damp in the last sentence but you were already well on the way to losing it addressing the previous posting. It is tough dealing with suspension experts on line isn't it?! Also don't think of KW as high end since they left KONI and went with ALKO but that's an opinion. Finally, although I do agree with you on preferring a no droop set-up (and we must do so for our EU customers by law), there are those also knowledgable (some much more knowledgable) who make a strong case for having some droop.

Dan Law
DER MotorSports

 

Another condescending (and unregistered) vendor comes out of the woodwork...

What do you mean that you "agree with you [Robi] on preferring a no droop set-up"? Robi's point was that a lot of coilovers lack sufficient droop travel, which is 100% true -- not that "no droop" is preferred.

 

We don't even deal with Evos yet. Our primary business is BMWs and Porsches. Sorry I support his statements thus far - don't know the history between you two nor frankly care.

For your part, assuming you and Rich speak with the same voice, I do support his statements on CG & RC. As I stated, have no dog in this fight and know neither of you. Now there are various length mounting eyes sold primarily to the formula guys and yes road racing motorcycle setups regularly have adj length but I have yet to see it built in to what I consider qualty auto dampers and we have woked with some pretty big pro racing teams over the years.

 

There is no history. The history is that Robi has successfully set up a lot of Evos and I've heard he's a very nice guy and very helpful. I posted something up here that I thought was adding to the discussion and he jumped down my throat for no apparent reason. My view of him has changed dramatically. That's the history.

 

I'm not baiting anyone this statement is just plain B. S. and WRONG as I stated NONE of the high end suspension manufactures use this design. So where does the "Better coilovers" come into the realm of reality? Thats right NONE. This design was done as an economic way to use a single "insert" for many applications PERIOD. It also has the advantage of not having to stock parts as whole inserts are swapped out (something any shop can do) when there is a failure or warranty claim.

I think DTM chose a good driver and I stated so, so no hidden agenda there. Just closeing off the "we beat you with XYZ" so they are obviously better than anything you do retort. I go out and race sometimes we do well sometimes combinations get thrown together which can put in one quick lap and we get beat THATS RACING lol

With me its WYSIWYG.

 

In due time...

Well I'm glad that you now see why you were ultimately not chosen to drive for DTM.

Because they went out to race with a combination that was on a very small budget with some choice parts that beat out higher end parts and cars...

At that level (NASA TTR) there should have been no reason why DTM would win in a street car even WITH a good driver. All the cars in that class have crazy mods! Lexan windows, splitters, wings, crazy cages, built motors, etc., etc., etc..

But with suspension, engine, and driver as weapons they some how won... Supposedly that's racing. As you well know planning is a part of racing too.

Closing off with a "they had a better driver" retort is just your way of saying that they won with ONLY a better driver. The components used to setup that car have proved that they are equal to or better than higher priced parts that were on the competitor's cars. Which is probably why DTM made their selection to begin with because they weren't ridiculously expensive and can produce the same if not better result.

The FACT is that STANCE Coilovers have been on the way up with their engineering/quality and have proved themselves to be of same or better quality for less $$$ than most of it's competitors in the suspension game. That is a win for the EVO community as a whole as all the parts for these cars are retarded expensive compared to other "tuner" cars.

Even though there is a MAD race to produce parts for the EVO X everyone operates on their own time tables. STANCE provided a product specifically for time attack for the EVO 7's, 8's, and 9's. STANCE in time will produce a product for the EVO X specifically for time attack also and if it falls in line with how they've been operating it will be an excellent product bang for buck.

Robi... you're a good guy that does great things. Just don't loose your cool as the throat jump on Rich was uncalled for.

Look... We all lose or win at any given time. In the beginning no one was trying to step on your dick about loosing at NASA Nationals. Ultimately this is a thread about suspension for the EVO X. Lets not get into a flaming match about which product is better and theory behind it. There are other threads for that with other people... Lets not do that here.

No one was attacking you nor your products that you provide or support.

Now maybe the price tag....

 

I don't have any direct experience with "better coilovers," but I will note that my inexpensive Megan Racing "street" version coilover suspension DO allow for adjustment of the total length of the damper unit via threaded bodies upon which the lower attachment end of the shock or strut can be screwed up and down and then secured by a jam nut. The range of adjustment is quite substantial.

 

Sounds like you equate "better coilovers" with "more expensive coilovers." That's certainly not what I said. With Evo suspension mods you most definitely don't always get what you pay for and you can often achieve similar results with a more modest investment. I think that's a major theme of version 2 beta's post above.

 

Many people on this forum - and elsewhere - equate "better coilovers" with "more expensive coilovers." I was merely putting out the info... sorry for the miscommunication.

Why would I have purchased the Megan suspension system for my own vehicle if I was blindly assuming that more expensive was always better/necessary? (although in some circumstances it is)

 

Because you didn't want to spend more money on coilovers? I think there are lots of Megan owners who wish they had the money for a more expensive set-up and assume that more expensive = better.

 

I think we're agreeing to agree here.

While we're at it, let's also agree that better driving, stickier tires, and an aggressive alignment will usually result in faster lap times than just throwing the world's most-expensive suspension kit under your Evo.

 

yup

 

Its not just about a aggressive set up ! Most usually go to agressive and cause more problems . Ride height on a evo is a important area and failure to keep sensible ride heights will result in bump steer and very profound toe under load on track and road.