JIC and Stance
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Chicago,Illinois
Not the same. Not even from the same manufacturer. Physical appearance may be similar, But there are only very few ways to design an inverted monotube CO. but internals and valving is different. I just asked the guys over at stance for ya. ^_^
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Chicago,Illinois
here is what the stance guys provided me with:
and andrew, since i dont know how to read this shock dyno and from what I read you seem to do so in this thread: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...=368568&page=2 post #17 but didnt divulge any information for the rest of us if it is good or not. Can you shed some light man? I just know that I have had several diffrent COs for all of my cars and these COs were one of my top sets from "the feel" of it and judging from the graph stance seems to have a very similar graph to DG-5s whick every drifter swears by. And with the pricepoint it is the best bang for the buck IMO.
NO_WAY, they are distributed in the US by stance-usa designed and manufactured in japan. ^_^ I really like knowing about a product before I buy it, so i get filled with useless info LOL ^_^
and andrew, since i dont know how to read this shock dyno and from what I read you seem to do so in this thread: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...=368568&page=2 post #17 but didnt divulge any information for the rest of us if it is good or not. Can you shed some light man? I just know that I have had several diffrent COs for all of my cars and these COs were one of my top sets from "the feel" of it and judging from the graph stance seems to have a very similar graph to DG-5s whick every drifter swears by. And with the pricepoint it is the best bang for the buck IMO.
NO_WAY, they are distributed in the US by stance-usa designed and manufactured in japan. ^_^ I really like knowing about a product before I buy it, so i get filled with useless info LOL ^_^
Well the problem with the dyno they gave was that it was for an S13 nissan with 8k/6k springs. And i don't know what the damper was set to (soft, stiff). I don't know if it's a front or a rear either. Maybe they do use the same valving for an EVO X with 10k springs but i can't say.
So that's why i didn't want to comment on it....i just don't have any context. I think it's overdamped for 8k springs, but I don't know where in the adjustment range it's in. Maybe you can turn it down some, i dunno.
To be fair, KW and Ohlins don't exactly release the dynos for their street kits either. I have seen them, but they weren't exactly advertised. So I really don't mean to single Stance out by any means. But they're new to the game and providing dyno charts is a perfect way to prove themselves. In fact I don't doubt that they're better then Tein Flex, and a dyno chart would help prove that fact. BC Racing released their dyno, AST from the Netherlands gladly releases theirs.
EDIT:
All i'm trying to say is....i'm always a skeptic! When it comes to suspensions, me and a few others have seen so much good and bad (mostly bad) that I can't recommend a set-up to a client without knowing what I can. Otherwise it's just pictures, advertising, and a couple of peoples opinions.
- Andrew
So that's why i didn't want to comment on it....i just don't have any context. I think it's overdamped for 8k springs, but I don't know where in the adjustment range it's in. Maybe you can turn it down some, i dunno.
To be fair, KW and Ohlins don't exactly release the dynos for their street kits either. I have seen them, but they weren't exactly advertised. So I really don't mean to single Stance out by any means. But they're new to the game and providing dyno charts is a perfect way to prove themselves. In fact I don't doubt that they're better then Tein Flex, and a dyno chart would help prove that fact. BC Racing released their dyno, AST from the Netherlands gladly releases theirs.
EDIT:
All i'm trying to say is....i'm always a skeptic! When it comes to suspensions, me and a few others have seen so much good and bad (mostly bad) that I can't recommend a set-up to a client without knowing what I can. Otherwise it's just pictures, advertising, and a couple of peoples opinions.
- Andrew
Last edited by GTWORX.com; Sep 25, 2008 at 03:18 PM.
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Well the problem with the dyno they gave was that it was for an S13 nissan with 8k/6k springs. And i don't know what the damper was set to (soft, stiff). I don't know if it's a front or a rear either. Maybe they do use the same valving for an EVO X with 10k springs but i can't say.
So that's why i didn't want to comment on it....i just don't have any context. I think it's overdamped for 8k springs, but I don't know where in the adjustment range it's in. Maybe you can turn it down some, i dunno.
To be fair, KW and Ohlins don't exactly release the dynos for their street kits either. I have seen them, but they weren't exactly advertised. So I really don't mean to single Stance out by any means. But they're new to the game and providing dyno charts is a perfect way to prove themselves. In fact I don't doubt that they're better then Tein Flex, and a dyno chart would help prove that fact. BC Racing released their dyno, AST from the Netherlands gladly releases theirs.
EDIT:
All i'm trying to say is....i'm always a skeptic! When it comes to suspensions, me and a few others have seen so much good and bad (mostly bad) that I can't recommend a set-up to a client without knowing what I can. Otherwise it's just pictures, advertising, and a couple of peoples opinions.
- Andrew
So that's why i didn't want to comment on it....i just don't have any context. I think it's overdamped for 8k springs, but I don't know where in the adjustment range it's in. Maybe you can turn it down some, i dunno.
To be fair, KW and Ohlins don't exactly release the dynos for their street kits either. I have seen them, but they weren't exactly advertised. So I really don't mean to single Stance out by any means. But they're new to the game and providing dyno charts is a perfect way to prove themselves. In fact I don't doubt that they're better then Tein Flex, and a dyno chart would help prove that fact. BC Racing released their dyno, AST from the Netherlands gladly releases theirs.
EDIT:
All i'm trying to say is....i'm always a skeptic! When it comes to suspensions, me and a few others have seen so much good and bad (mostly bad) that I can't recommend a set-up to a client without knowing what I can. Otherwise it's just pictures, advertising, and a couple of peoples opinions.
- Andrew
From the sticky I maintain in this section, seems they have slightly different specs?
Coilovers ........................ Front Rate ...... Rear Rate ....... Damping .............. Front/Rear Drop
BC ...................................... 8.0 kg* ........... 6.0 kg* ........... 32-way.....................Adjustable
Eibach Pro-Street ............... 8.0 kg* ........... 6.0 kg* ........... Preset .......... 0.8"-> 3.0" / 0.8"-> 3.0"
HKS Hipermax III ................ 7.0 kg ............. 5.0 kg ............ 30-way .....................Adjustable
HKS Hipermax III Sport ..... 12.0 kg ............ 10.0 kg ........... 30-way .....................Adjustable
JIC FLT-TAR ....................... 10.0 kg ............ 8.0 kg ............. 15-way .....................Adjustable
K-Sport Kontrol Pro ............. 9.0 kg ............. 7.0kg ..............36-way .....................Adjustable
KW Variant 3 ....................... 8.0 kg* ........... 7.0 kg* .......... 14-way ......... 0.4"-> 2.0" / 0.8"-> 2.2"
Megan Street ...................... 8.0 kg ............. 6.0 kg ............ 32-way .....................Adjustable
Megan Track ...................... 12.0 kg ............ 10.0 kg ........... 32-way .....................Adjustable
Ohlins Stage III DFV .......... 10.0 kg* .......... 7.0 kg* ........... 25-way .....................Adjustable
Stance GR+ ........................ 10.0 kg ........... 10.0 kg ........... 15-way .....................Adjustable
Stance GR+ Pro .................. 14.0 kg ........... 14.0 kg ........... 15-way .....................Adjustable
Tein Monoflex ..................... 14.0 kg ........... 10.0 kg ............16-way .....................Adjustable
Zeal Function Xs ................ 10.0 kg* .......... 10.0 kg* .......... 6-way .....................Adjustable
Zeal Function X .................. 12.0 kg* .......... 12.0 kg* .......... 6-way .....................Adjustable
Zeal Super Function ........... 14.0 kg* .......... 14.0 kg* .......... 6-way .....................Adjustable
* Custom spring rates may be available
Coilovers ........................ Front Rate ...... Rear Rate ....... Damping .............. Front/Rear Drop
BC ...................................... 8.0 kg* ........... 6.0 kg* ........... 32-way.....................Adjustable
Eibach Pro-Street ............... 8.0 kg* ........... 6.0 kg* ........... Preset .......... 0.8"-> 3.0" / 0.8"-> 3.0"
HKS Hipermax III ................ 7.0 kg ............. 5.0 kg ............ 30-way .....................Adjustable
HKS Hipermax III Sport ..... 12.0 kg ............ 10.0 kg ........... 30-way .....................Adjustable
JIC FLT-TAR ....................... 10.0 kg ............ 8.0 kg ............. 15-way .....................Adjustable
K-Sport Kontrol Pro ............. 9.0 kg ............. 7.0kg ..............36-way .....................Adjustable
KW Variant 3 ....................... 8.0 kg* ........... 7.0 kg* .......... 14-way ......... 0.4"-> 2.0" / 0.8"-> 2.2"
Megan Street ...................... 8.0 kg ............. 6.0 kg ............ 32-way .....................Adjustable
Megan Track ...................... 12.0 kg ............ 10.0 kg ........... 32-way .....................Adjustable
Ohlins Stage III DFV .......... 10.0 kg* .......... 7.0 kg* ........... 25-way .....................Adjustable
Stance GR+ ........................ 10.0 kg ........... 10.0 kg ........... 15-way .....................Adjustable
Stance GR+ Pro .................. 14.0 kg ........... 14.0 kg ........... 15-way .....................Adjustable
Tein Monoflex ..................... 14.0 kg ........... 10.0 kg ............16-way .....................Adjustable
Zeal Function Xs ................ 10.0 kg* .......... 10.0 kg* .......... 6-way .....................Adjustable
Zeal Function X .................. 12.0 kg* .......... 12.0 kg* .......... 6-way .....................Adjustable
Zeal Super Function ........... 14.0 kg* .......... 14.0 kg* .......... 6-way .....................Adjustable
* Custom spring rates may be available
The biggest problem I see with most of these CO's, is the rebound and compression being on the same circuit. Obviously if you adjust one, you're adjusting them both. If you need more bump resistance, you're gonna get more rebound damping whether you like it or not. You want to soften up your compression, you're gonna speed up the rebound. Conversely, if your rebound is too slow, you're going to soften up you compression at the same time, and vice versa.
Well the problem with the dyno they gave was that it was for an S13 nissan with 8k/6k springs. And i don't know what the damper was set to (soft, stiff). I don't know if it's a front or a rear either. Maybe they do use the same valving for an EVO X with 10k springs but i can't say.
So that's why i didn't want to comment on it....i just don't have any context. I think it's overdamped for 8k springs, but I don't know where in the adjustment range it's in. Maybe you can turn it down some, i dunno.
To be fair, KW and Ohlins don't exactly release the dynos for their street kits either. I have seen them, but they weren't exactly advertised. So I really don't mean to single Stance out by any means. But they're new to the game and providing dyno charts is a perfect way to prove themselves. In fact I don't doubt that they're better then Tein Flex, and a dyno chart would help prove that fact. BC Racing released their dyno, AST from the Netherlands gladly releases theirs.
EDIT:
All i'm trying to say is....i'm always a skeptic! When it comes to suspensions, me and a few others have seen so much good and bad (mostly bad) that I can't recommend a set-up to a client without knowing what I can. Otherwise it's just pictures, advertising, and a couple of peoples opinions.
- Andrew
So that's why i didn't want to comment on it....i just don't have any context. I think it's overdamped for 8k springs, but I don't know where in the adjustment range it's in. Maybe you can turn it down some, i dunno.
To be fair, KW and Ohlins don't exactly release the dynos for their street kits either. I have seen them, but they weren't exactly advertised. So I really don't mean to single Stance out by any means. But they're new to the game and providing dyno charts is a perfect way to prove themselves. In fact I don't doubt that they're better then Tein Flex, and a dyno chart would help prove that fact. BC Racing released their dyno, AST from the Netherlands gladly releases theirs.
EDIT:
All i'm trying to say is....i'm always a skeptic! When it comes to suspensions, me and a few others have seen so much good and bad (mostly bad) that I can't recommend a set-up to a client without knowing what I can. Otherwise it's just pictures, advertising, and a couple of peoples opinions.
- Andrew
your skepticism and willingness (as a vendor, no less) to steer people to less expensive options is admirable. you always provide solid reasoning for a given end user.
however, therefore, but-
i have noticed that you always show up when someone considers stance. i mention that because your questions are consistently the same (show dyno)/ general preference for euro coilovers (like KW). i perceive that you are insinuating stance is one of the lower end options that you generally steer people away from, but you have never said exactly why. is it solely on price? or have you had customers show up with a set of stance units that fell apart or were obviously worse handling than stock?
i'm saying all this to say that it seems like you know something the rest of us don't know but could be very helpful. so the mods know, i am seeking his professional opinion. i include that caveat so he can speak plain, as i am not familiar with what a vendor can and cannot say about other products.
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 642
Likes: 1
From: IL, USA
The biggest problem I see with most of these CO's, is the rebound and compression being on the same circuit. Obviously if you adjust one, you're adjusting them both. If you need more bump resistance, you're gonna get more rebound damping whether you like it or not. You want to soften up your compression, you're gonna speed up the rebound. Conversely, if your rebound is too slow, you're going to soften up you compression at the same time, and vice versa.
Also, there may be only a few single-adjustable shocks for cars on the market that adjust compression only. For the most part, a single-adjustable shock is going to be adjustable in rebound only. So when we start talking about compression adjustments affecting rebound, we can assume with a good amount of certainty that you'll be able to tune out that cross-talk with your second (rebound) adjustment.
Cross-talk is unavoidable in ANY damper. Find me raw, unmodified force vs absolute velocity numbers that show no change in one while the other is adjusted and I will eat my words. It is the *amount* of cross-talk is what should be focused on. A better shock will have minimal change in compression as rebound is adjusted, which translates to negligible effects on performance.
Also, there may be only a few single-adjustable shocks for cars on the market that adjust compression only. For the most part, a single-adjustable shock is going to be adjustable in rebound only. So when we start talking about compression adjustments affecting rebound, we can assume with a good amount of certainty that you'll be able to tune out that cross-talk with your second (rebound) adjustment.
Also, there may be only a few single-adjustable shocks for cars on the market that adjust compression only. For the most part, a single-adjustable shock is going to be adjustable in rebound only. So when we start talking about compression adjustments affecting rebound, we can assume with a good amount of certainty that you'll be able to tune out that cross-talk with your second (rebound) adjustment.
The car market is much larger than the bike market. Many more CO's are sold for cars than their bike counterparts. This means they could sell CO's with the same technology as they use in bikes, for a lot less money(more units sold= cheaper cost). Instead, most of them sell junk, and people still buy it. Maybe that's the reason? .
100% honesty here: My only real world experience with Stance has been observing a time attack EVO at the track with them. I was able to watch the car through some tricky sections of track, but really it was limited experience. I saw some things but not enough to form a real opinion on them.
There has been a HUGE amount of talk about Stance in the last couple of months here and other message boards. I've noticed this sudden spark of interest and the amount of people praising a new brand, and wanted to know why and what makes them any different then everything else out there. As i said before, i've become a skeptic over the years.
So when I see a thread on the comparison of JIC and Stance, I see opinions. The "specs" that are available are pretty much the same....rebound adjustable monotube with 32 or whatever clicks and dual height adjustment. Clicks don't matter. What makes Stance better?
I really don't mean to call out Stance every chance I get. I don't have anything bad to say about them and if I have i really apologize. From what I can tell, they seem like they could be a step above many different options out there. I'm just looking for more to go on. Make sense?
For what it's worth, I would choose Stance over JIC every time, without hesitation. You can PM me for details on that if you like.
Let me know if you have any questions.
- Andrew
There has been a HUGE amount of talk about Stance in the last couple of months here and other message boards. I've noticed this sudden spark of interest and the amount of people praising a new brand, and wanted to know why and what makes them any different then everything else out there. As i said before, i've become a skeptic over the years.
So when I see a thread on the comparison of JIC and Stance, I see opinions. The "specs" that are available are pretty much the same....rebound adjustable monotube with 32 or whatever clicks and dual height adjustment. Clicks don't matter. What makes Stance better?
I really don't mean to call out Stance every chance I get. I don't have anything bad to say about them and if I have i really apologize. From what I can tell, they seem like they could be a step above many different options out there. I'm just looking for more to go on. Make sense?
For what it's worth, I would choose Stance over JIC every time, without hesitation. You can PM me for details on that if you like.
Let me know if you have any questions.
- Andrew
andrew,
your skepticism and willingness (as a vendor, no less) to steer people to less expensive options is admirable. you always provide solid reasoning for a given end user.
however, therefore, but-
i have noticed that you always show up when someone considers stance. i mention that because your questions are consistently the same (show dyno)/ general preference for euro coilovers (like KW). i perceive that you are insinuating stance is one of the lower end options that you generally steer people away from, but you have never said exactly why. is it solely on price? or have you had customers show up with a set of stance units that fell apart or were obviously worse handling than stock?
i'm saying all this to say that it seems like you know something the rest of us don't know but could be very helpful. so the mods know, i am seeking his professional opinion. i include that caveat so he can speak plain, as i am not familiar with what a vendor can and cannot say about other products.
your skepticism and willingness (as a vendor, no less) to steer people to less expensive options is admirable. you always provide solid reasoning for a given end user.
however, therefore, but-
i have noticed that you always show up when someone considers stance. i mention that because your questions are consistently the same (show dyno)/ general preference for euro coilovers (like KW). i perceive that you are insinuating stance is one of the lower end options that you generally steer people away from, but you have never said exactly why. is it solely on price? or have you had customers show up with a set of stance units that fell apart or were obviously worse handling than stock?
i'm saying all this to say that it seems like you know something the rest of us don't know but could be very helpful. so the mods know, i am seeking his professional opinion. i include that caveat so he can speak plain, as i am not familiar with what a vendor can and cannot say about other products.
Last edited by GTWORX.com; Sep 28, 2008 at 08:17 PM.
100% honesty here: My only real world experience with Stance has been observing a time attack EVO at the track with them. I was able to watch the car through some tricky sections of track, but really it was limited experience. I saw some things but not enough to form a real opinion on them.
There has been a HUGE amount of talk about Stance in the last couple of months here and other message boards. I've noticed this sudden spark of interest and the amount of people praising a new brand, and wanted to know why and what makes them any different then everything else out there. As i said before, i've become a skeptic over the years.
So when I see a thread on the comparison of JIC and Stance, I see opinions. The "specs" that are available are pretty much the same....rebound adjustable monotube with 32 or whatever clicks and dual height adjustment. Clicks don't matter. What makes Stance better?
I really don't mean to call out Stance every chance I get. I don't have anything bad to say about them and if I have i really apologize. From what I can tell, they seem like they could be a step above many different options out there. I'm just looking for more to go on. Make sense?
For what it's worth, I would choose Stance over JIC every time, without hesitation. You can PM me for details on that if you like.
Let me know if you have any questions.
- Andrew
There has been a HUGE amount of talk about Stance in the last couple of months here and other message boards. I've noticed this sudden spark of interest and the amount of people praising a new brand, and wanted to know why and what makes them any different then everything else out there. As i said before, i've become a skeptic over the years.
So when I see a thread on the comparison of JIC and Stance, I see opinions. The "specs" that are available are pretty much the same....rebound adjustable monotube with 32 or whatever clicks and dual height adjustment. Clicks don't matter. What makes Stance better?
I really don't mean to call out Stance every chance I get. I don't have anything bad to say about them and if I have i really apologize. From what I can tell, they seem like they could be a step above many different options out there. I'm just looking for more to go on. Make sense?
For what it's worth, I would choose Stance over JIC every time, without hesitation. You can PM me for details on that if you like.
Let me know if you have any questions.
- Andrew
a little off topic, but what i don't get so far is why there aren't any linear springs for the Evo X...