Intakes are bad?
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Newbie
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Intakes are bad?
Im an Evo noob, in fact this is my first turbo/remotly fast car... and my first post on these forums.
Anywho, I went down to a place called Dynocomp to have them run it to see what it does to the wheels and install a turbo timer. I asked the guy there what type of intakes they had, and he said they only had the APS cold air intake. I was like cool, but it seemed pretty expensive, and I told him I would probably just get a regular "short ram" intake. His eyes lit up as he told me that they are junk and that the heat from the engine will give me nothing but problems in the summer, and im better off gettting a drop in filter. I do live in Phoenix, AZ where you can literlly cook eegs on the street but, Is this true? Or is he just trying to sell his product? Ive had really bad experience with cold are intakes sucking in water and blowing a hole in my block on my old car(lolhonda). Discuss.
Anywho, I went down to a place called Dynocomp to have them run it to see what it does to the wheels and install a turbo timer. I asked the guy there what type of intakes they had, and he said they only had the APS cold air intake. I was like cool, but it seemed pretty expensive, and I told him I would probably just get a regular "short ram" intake. His eyes lit up as he told me that they are junk and that the heat from the engine will give me nothing but problems in the summer, and im better off gettting a drop in filter. I do live in Phoenix, AZ where you can literlly cook eegs on the street but, Is this true? Or is he just trying to sell his product? Ive had really bad experience with cold are intakes sucking in water and blowing a hole in my block on my old car(lolhonda). Discuss.
Well if you dont plan on getting your car tuned after adding a intake, just get a drop in. But there are alot of good intakes on the market that will net HP if tuned properly.....ie HKS, Injen, Bushcur....ect.
Oh and by the way the air from the intake still goes through the hot *** turbo and then gets cooled by the intercooler...so you dont really have to worry about heat soak and engine heat.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Phoenix, AZ
I plan on doing an intake and 3" exauhst then take it back to get it tuned/flashed/etc. But I was more concerned about the heat from summer and the engine. They dude made it sound like it would hurt the motor or something having an open air filter and not doing a cold air.
EDIT: Ok just read ur last post Scotty, that makes sense. I think the guy was just trying to sell the cold air. Thanks for the info guys.
EDIT: Ok just read ur last post Scotty, that makes sense. I think the guy was just trying to sell the cold air. Thanks for the info guys.
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: somewhere testing various tires, brakes, and suspensions.
Discuss? Ah...search - answered 1 billion times. Paragraphs are good too.
But a cone filter when tuned is great. Rob W just did a study on pressure drop from a cone intake v. stock box - read that. If you are not going to get a tune then a panel filter is fine.
Once you change the post MAF piping it will confuse your MAF.
And heat should not be a prb. I used the stock snorkle from my box with my cone, throws cool air right over it -- problem (if there ever was one) solved.
But a cone filter when tuned is great. Rob W just did a study on pressure drop from a cone intake v. stock box - read that. If you are not going to get a tune then a panel filter is fine.
Once you change the post MAF piping it will confuse your MAF.
And heat should not be a prb. I used the stock snorkle from my box with my cone, throws cool air right over it -- problem (if there ever was one) solved.
dude the aps intake, though expensive, is a very good intake. it's also great for the summer heat because it has a cold water reservoir that you can buy for it. it keeps it cool, and you defintieyl won't have any problems with it. but yeah good luck with the car, and welcome to evom!
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Evolving Member
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Kemp, Texas
I live in Texas and it get pretty hot here as well and I have the HKS intake. You will learn that most shops and people have their own opinions. As for myself I like my intake. I agree with the comment that Scottatayamaha made.
Evolving Member
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Philly
That's a good point about the "heat soak" not being a real issue on the EVO. Why? because even if there is no air box and you have an open-element filter like a cone, the ambient engine bay air WILL NOT be hotter than the turbo itself....also, the IC will cool the air down so if your goal is to reduce intake charge temp, your money would be better spent on an IC misting setup that squirts windshield washer fluid on your IC.
As for the intake air reading being messed up - that only happens if you remove that screen in front of the air flow sensor. Some intakes might replace this...if your filter setup leaves the screen in place, you won't have problems with a erratic air meter reading.
As for the intake air reading being messed up - that only happens if you remove that screen in front of the air flow sensor. Some intakes might replace this...if your filter setup leaves the screen in place, you won't have problems with a erratic air meter reading.
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From: ut
From another board but right on point.
Originally Posted by DroppedClutch
Let's say that at some arbitrary moment in time a turbo adds 100 kilojoules (totally made up value for discussion sake) of energy to the air passing through it. That 100 kilojoules is going to heat up 120 degree air to a higher temperature that it would 80 degree air; the laws of thermodynamics. While it is true that, depending on many factors, that this temperature delta might not mean huge performance gains once everything is past the intercooler, cooler in at the filter pretty much always means cooler out at the intercooler. And this is always good, even if it's a little.
A more important thing to consider is that a turbo has to work less hard to compress cooler air than it does to compress hotter air to the same pressure; the good ole idle gas law, PV=nRT. This can help net us benefits such as improved boost response.
But this also sends us back to the first point. The harder a turbo has to work, the more heat it transfers to the air. So we end up with a stacking effect on the outlet temperature of the turbo -- filter intake temp plus energy transferred by the turbo.
It's a vicious circle. But what it comes down to is: cooler in is virtually always better, even on a turbo car.
A more important thing to consider is that a turbo has to work less hard to compress cooler air than it does to compress hotter air to the same pressure; the good ole idle gas law, PV=nRT. This can help net us benefits such as improved boost response.
But this also sends us back to the first point. The harder a turbo has to work, the more heat it transfers to the air. So we end up with a stacking effect on the outlet temperature of the turbo -- filter intake temp plus energy transferred by the turbo.
It's a vicious circle. But what it comes down to is: cooler in is virtually always better, even on a turbo car.
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Philly
Originally Posted by awdevo2l
A more important thing to consider is that a turbo has to work less hard to compress cooler air than it does to compress hotter air to the same pressure; the good ole idle gas law, PV=nRT. This can help net us benefits such as improved boost response.
But this also sends us back to the first point. The harder a turbo has to work, the more heat it transfers to the air. So we end up with a stacking effect on the outlet temperature of the turbo -- filter intake temp plus energy transferred by the turbo.
But this also sends us back to the first point. The harder a turbo has to work, the more heat it transfers to the air. So we end up with a stacking effect on the outlet temperature of the turbo -- filter intake temp plus energy transferred by the turbo.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html
Remember, the ULTIMATE goal of forced induction is to cram AS MUCH AIR (mass) as possible into the engine. Cooler air is denser, therefore there is a greater mass of air. Hotter air has a greater volume (pressure).
The point of discussion here is, just how much more air are we cramming into the engine if the intake air temp is equal to the current air temperature outside, versus the ambient air temp inside the engine bay. Also keep in mind that this formula does not account for the intercooler. For help with that:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html
Also worth noting that a good filter will flow more air, even if it is hotter...so that's something worth keeping in mind. Do you get more power from a filter that keeps air a little bit cooler but is more restrictive, or do you get better power from a filter that will allow the air to get a bit hotter but is much less restrictive.
Originally Posted by whitey4d
^^^^Thank You very much. You can tell these people dont understand science at all. Or cars for that matter.
Thanks for that tidbit.
