What intercooler should I buy?
I just love the craftsmanship of AMS their intercooler is one nice piece of work and flows real smooth.
Can't knock, ETS but I never had it on my car so I can only talk about AMS because that what I use.
Can't knock, ETS but I never had it on my car so I can only talk about AMS because that what I use.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 32
Likes: 1
From: United States
one of my boys has a 4in with stock 9.8cfm turbo and he lost a lil bit of tq. Not really a lot of peak tq only about 5ft-lbs but his low end and response is what lost the most. He gained like 10 peak hp though. Maybe his dyno sheet is wrong since its completely untrue lol. And I've seen power pages in magazines with tq loss and hp gain but I guess they are wrong too. Granted im fairly new to Evos I do know how to read lol
Is it all untrue or just partially untrue?
I imagine you would lose some response it you went too big but since the stock intercooler is not holding a stock turbo back, I wouldn't expect any additional power.
which is why I counselled "don't bother", but I'm still an ignorant noob.
I imagine you would lose some response it you went too big but since the stock intercooler is not holding a stock turbo back, I wouldn't expect any additional power.
which is why I counselled "don't bother", but I'm still an ignorant noob.
Ragin-Azn
As for reading stuff in magazines and getting information on tuning and parts for the Evo...
Internet has lots of free factual information, no need to believe a bunch of arm-chair racers.
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/faq
Intercooler
Q. Is there any maintenance required for my intercooler? Are there any special things to do to keep it working longer?
A. In a water-to-air intercooler, check the water level often as this is crucial for the intercooler to operate properly. In cold weather, just like a car, it will need antifreeze in order to function effectively and properly. With an air-to-air intercooler, there really is no maintenance that needs to be done other than just the routine checking of hoses and clamps to make sure everything is tight. Additionally, the intercooler fins may be picked-out or de-smashed to ensure maximum cooling. Every 20,000 miles or so it is recommended that the intercooler core be inspected, and if necessary, flushed/washed out to remove any accumulated oil or buildup.
Q. I want my car to remain a sleeper/stealth. Can I paint or anodize my intercooler so it is not easily visible?
A. Yes! It is not uncommon at all for an intercooler and endtanks to be anodized black to keep attention away from the car and help it maintain a sleeper appearance. A very light coat of paint on the core and endtanks is also another option, usually much cheaper and easier than anodizing, with a negligible performance loss.
Q How significant is a leak in my intercooler?
A. For an air-to-air intercooler, a leak, as long as it is not a significantly large one, will not hinder performance at all. However, if an air-to-water intercooler develops a leak in the main core, it could lead to other more significant problems with the engine itself. Be sure to fix these problems as soon as they occur to prevent other damage.
Q. Is there a maximum amount of boost I can run on my intercooler?
A. While it is possible that an intercooler can fail from boost levels being too high, it is a very rare scenario. However, if not properly designed to handle high boost, cracking along seams and of the endtanks can occur.
Q. I want to turn up my boost, is a larger intercooler necessary?
A. Usually, it is not necessary to upgrade the intercooler when raising boost levels. The pressure drop contributed by the intercooler is proportional to it's flow (CFM) squared. This relationship shows that it is highly unlikely the change resulting in loss from higher boost levels will require a larger intercooler. If there is a significant change however, such as 40% or 50%, then a larger intercooler may be necessary.
Q. What exactly is 'pressure drop/loss' / 'flow loss' and how are they measured?
A. Pressure loss, or pressure drop, refers to the change in pressure when comparing the air entering the intercooler with the exiting air. This change is mostly affected by the internal flow area of the intercooler. Flow loss, however, is measured not just with pressure loss but with how much restriction to airflow exists. Maximum performance can be obtained if the pressure loss is kept below 1.0 to 1.5 psi. Anything in excess of these numbers, especially higher than 3.8 psi, and the intercooler is not properly fitted for the application which results in hindered performance and dramatically decreased functionality of the intercooler system itself.
Q. What is intercooler effectiveness and how do I measure it?
A. Effectiveness is defined as the ratio of how many degrees of temperature that were removed from the charge air by the intercooler to the original temperature that is put into the charge air by the turbo. Example: If the turbo compresses the charge air to a temperature of 140° F, but after passing through the intercooler the air is 115° cooler (resulting in a 25° F charge air temperature), the efficiency would be: Effectiveness: 115/140 = 0.82 or 82% efficiency Typically, air-to-air intercoolers for normal street applications range between 60% and 70% efficiency. Often, liquid-to-air intercoolers have effectiveness ratings from 75% to 95%. One common method of improving the cooling of the charge air dramatically in an air-to-water intercooler is the inclusion of ice as a coolant.
Q. Will a FMIC block flow to my radiator?
A. No. Since the intercooler allows air to pass through it, airflow to the radiator will not be blocked. However, using an intercooler core that is too thick and does not allow air to pass through it quickly or completely and airflow to the radiator can be restricted which can lead to potential overheating problems.
Q. What is the best placement of my intercooler?
A. The best place for your intercooler is directly in the path of the inflow of ambient air. Traditionally this has been right in front of the radiator in the front of the car, hence the term Front Mount Intercooler.
Q. How do I select the proper intercooler core size?
A. A major limiting factor in choosing an intercooler size is space constraints within the engine bay. If there is not enough room for an intercooler with adequate flow, then often a water-to-air intercooler is used instead to maximize the cooling capability of the surface area of the core. You want to make sure that the intercooler you choose is large enough to effectively handle the air. Too small of a core, and you will restrict the potential of the turbo by not allowing the charge air to be cooled adequately.
Q. What is the difference between an air-to-air intercooler and a water-to-air (liquid-to-air) intercooler?
A. An Air-to-Air intercooler uses ambient air flowing over the fins to cool the charge air, while an Air-to-Water intercooler uses coolant (water) with a system similar to that of a radiator's cooling system. Traditionally, air-to-air intercoolers are used for street applications because of their lower cost and reduced complexity, while air-to-water intercoolers are used in race and packaging-constrained applications.
Q. Will an intercooler help make more horsepower?
A. Yes, although it is only indirectly responsible for helping make more power. Since the intercooler increases the charge air density, an intercooled engine will typically make more power than a non-intercooled engine with the same setup by allowing more air to be crammed into each cylinder
Q. FMIC, TMIC, SMIC - what do they mean?
A. (Front Mounted Intercooler, Top Mounted Intercooler, Side Mounted Intercooler) terms which refer to the placement of the charge air cooler in the engine bay and in reference to the engine. Typically FMICs provide the best cooling capability, as they are located in front of the radiator for optimum airflow. SMICs and TMICs are commonly found on factory-turbo'd cars. TMICs are more prone to heatsoak as they are placed over the engine directly in the path of the rising heat and very close to the hood. However, when a TMIC is used in conjunction with a hood scoop, they can provide adequate cooling.
Q. What is the purpose of an Intercooler?
A. An intercooler's primary function is to cool the charge air after it has been heated due to boosting and the heat that is produced by the turbo before sending the air into the engine. As the air is cooled, it becomes denser, and denser air makes for better combustion (more power). Additionally, the denser, cooler air helps reduce the chances of knock.
Q. What is intercooler heat soak?
A. Heat soak is when the intercooler can't dissipate the heat that it absorbs from the turbo fast enough. When an intercooler can't cool the charge air by removing the heat from it, it loses its effectiveness. This explains why turbo cars tend to run slower or have slightly less power when the weather is warm.
Q. Is there any maintenance required for my intercooler? Are there any special things to do to keep it working longer?
A. In a water-to-air intercooler, check the water level often as this is crucial for the intercooler to operate properly. In cold weather, just like a car, it will need antifreeze in order to function effectively and properly. With an air-to-air intercooler, there really is no maintenance that needs to be done other than just the routine checking of hoses and clamps to make sure everything is tight. Additionally, the intercooler fins may be picked-out or de-smashed to ensure maximum cooling. Every 20,000 miles or so it is recommended that the intercooler core be inspected, and if necessary, flushed/washed out to remove any accumulated oil or buildup.
Q. I want my car to remain a sleeper/stealth. Can I paint or anodize my intercooler so it is not easily visible?
A. Yes! It is not uncommon at all for an intercooler and endtanks to be anodized black to keep attention away from the car and help it maintain a sleeper appearance. A very light coat of paint on the core and endtanks is also another option, usually much cheaper and easier than anodizing, with a negligible performance loss.
Q How significant is a leak in my intercooler?
A. For an air-to-air intercooler, a leak, as long as it is not a significantly large one, will not hinder performance at all. However, if an air-to-water intercooler develops a leak in the main core, it could lead to other more significant problems with the engine itself. Be sure to fix these problems as soon as they occur to prevent other damage.
Q. Is there a maximum amount of boost I can run on my intercooler?
A. While it is possible that an intercooler can fail from boost levels being too high, it is a very rare scenario. However, if not properly designed to handle high boost, cracking along seams and of the endtanks can occur.
Q. I want to turn up my boost, is a larger intercooler necessary?
A. Usually, it is not necessary to upgrade the intercooler when raising boost levels. The pressure drop contributed by the intercooler is proportional to it's flow (CFM) squared. This relationship shows that it is highly unlikely the change resulting in loss from higher boost levels will require a larger intercooler. If there is a significant change however, such as 40% or 50%, then a larger intercooler may be necessary.
Q. What exactly is 'pressure drop/loss' / 'flow loss' and how are they measured?
A. Pressure loss, or pressure drop, refers to the change in pressure when comparing the air entering the intercooler with the exiting air. This change is mostly affected by the internal flow area of the intercooler. Flow loss, however, is measured not just with pressure loss but with how much restriction to airflow exists. Maximum performance can be obtained if the pressure loss is kept below 1.0 to 1.5 psi. Anything in excess of these numbers, especially higher than 3.8 psi, and the intercooler is not properly fitted for the application which results in hindered performance and dramatically decreased functionality of the intercooler system itself.
Q. What is intercooler effectiveness and how do I measure it?
A. Effectiveness is defined as the ratio of how many degrees of temperature that were removed from the charge air by the intercooler to the original temperature that is put into the charge air by the turbo. Example: If the turbo compresses the charge air to a temperature of 140° F, but after passing through the intercooler the air is 115° cooler (resulting in a 25° F charge air temperature), the efficiency would be: Effectiveness: 115/140 = 0.82 or 82% efficiency Typically, air-to-air intercoolers for normal street applications range between 60% and 70% efficiency. Often, liquid-to-air intercoolers have effectiveness ratings from 75% to 95%. One common method of improving the cooling of the charge air dramatically in an air-to-water intercooler is the inclusion of ice as a coolant.
Q. Will a FMIC block flow to my radiator?
A. No. Since the intercooler allows air to pass through it, airflow to the radiator will not be blocked. However, using an intercooler core that is too thick and does not allow air to pass through it quickly or completely and airflow to the radiator can be restricted which can lead to potential overheating problems.
Q. What is the best placement of my intercooler?
A. The best place for your intercooler is directly in the path of the inflow of ambient air. Traditionally this has been right in front of the radiator in the front of the car, hence the term Front Mount Intercooler.
Q. How do I select the proper intercooler core size?
A. A major limiting factor in choosing an intercooler size is space constraints within the engine bay. If there is not enough room for an intercooler with adequate flow, then often a water-to-air intercooler is used instead to maximize the cooling capability of the surface area of the core. You want to make sure that the intercooler you choose is large enough to effectively handle the air. Too small of a core, and you will restrict the potential of the turbo by not allowing the charge air to be cooled adequately.
Q. What is the difference between an air-to-air intercooler and a water-to-air (liquid-to-air) intercooler?
A. An Air-to-Air intercooler uses ambient air flowing over the fins to cool the charge air, while an Air-to-Water intercooler uses coolant (water) with a system similar to that of a radiator's cooling system. Traditionally, air-to-air intercoolers are used for street applications because of their lower cost and reduced complexity, while air-to-water intercoolers are used in race and packaging-constrained applications.
Q. Will an intercooler help make more horsepower?
A. Yes, although it is only indirectly responsible for helping make more power. Since the intercooler increases the charge air density, an intercooled engine will typically make more power than a non-intercooled engine with the same setup by allowing more air to be crammed into each cylinder
Q. FMIC, TMIC, SMIC - what do they mean?
A. (Front Mounted Intercooler, Top Mounted Intercooler, Side Mounted Intercooler) terms which refer to the placement of the charge air cooler in the engine bay and in reference to the engine. Typically FMICs provide the best cooling capability, as they are located in front of the radiator for optimum airflow. SMICs and TMICs are commonly found on factory-turbo'd cars. TMICs are more prone to heatsoak as they are placed over the engine directly in the path of the rising heat and very close to the hood. However, when a TMIC is used in conjunction with a hood scoop, they can provide adequate cooling.
Q. What is the purpose of an Intercooler?
A. An intercooler's primary function is to cool the charge air after it has been heated due to boosting and the heat that is produced by the turbo before sending the air into the engine. As the air is cooled, it becomes denser, and denser air makes for better combustion (more power). Additionally, the denser, cooler air helps reduce the chances of knock.
Q. What is intercooler heat soak?
A. Heat soak is when the intercooler can't dissipate the heat that it absorbs from the turbo fast enough. When an intercooler can't cool the charge air by removing the heat from it, it loses its effectiveness. This explains why turbo cars tend to run slower or have slightly less power when the weather is warm.
It is untrue... Anyone who has been on a dyno once in there life can tell you power varies from pull to pull... Even back to back... Now you start swapping parts and run at different times or different days... For get it... The claim that you lose anything is plainly ignorant... Now if you go to a 5 inch core maybe due to the pressure differential across the core... Or if you bought a ****ty intercooler but thats not the upgrades fault... Its the owner being a retard issue...
Now as for the question... I'm with mistaken or whomever it was... I made the number in my sig on a damaged ebay mishimoto 3" cheap pos... Most people upgrade the intercooler to big name brands to be cool and pretend they can hang with the big boys... When in reality you can make more power for less else where... When you have exhausted the other stuff they do it. I just upgraded to a perrin this build... And only because it was given to me...
Now as for the question... I'm with mistaken or whomever it was... I made the number in my sig on a damaged ebay mishimoto 3" cheap pos... Most people upgrade the intercooler to big name brands to be cool and pretend they can hang with the big boys... When in reality you can make more power for less else where... When you have exhausted the other stuff they do it. I just upgraded to a perrin this build... And only because it was given to me...
Quite honestly, I just changed from a AMS intercooler, there newest design.... IT SUCKED!!! Thats putting it lightly... I had anywhere from 15-55 degree temp increase after 1 pull
I just put on a Buschur race IC witch utilizes a 3.8" garrett core, and guess what, no matter how many pulls I do, I cant get any more than 1 degree temp increase!!!!
I always thought AMS built top tier products... I mean they do make baller parts, CAD tested and flow tested and all but as to how they fair up to the competition, I donno. I thought I would have never needed an intercooler again.... little did I know what troubles that ic was causing me! Lesson I learnt, Garrett core is the only way to go!!
Nothing else belongs on the evo.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 32
Likes: 1
From: United States
my tuner told me not to get one if I liked my response also. I'm making 382whp on 93oct with my stock 9.8 turbo. The build and my bolt ons have been a result of reading mostly on here and my own knowledge from building other cars. So I'm not as stupid as your trying to make me out to be. I'm not afraid to ask questions and not afraid to be wrong I don't know everything.
my tuner told me not to get one if I liked my response also. I'm making 382whp on 93oct with my stock 9.8 turbo. The build and my bolt ons have been a result of reading mostly on here and my own knowledge from building other cars. So I'm not as stupid as your trying to make me out to be. I'm not afraid to ask questions and not afraid to be wrong I don't know everything.
Your tuner is wrong about the response decreasing with a bigger intercooler, I can touch the gas pedal on my car and it literally is hitting about 10psi.
Newbie
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 32
Likes: 1
From: United States
I don't think you are stupid, was not meant to come off as that either. All the knowledge you need is here on this site.
Your tuner is wrong about the response decreasing with a bigger intercooler, I can touch the gas pedal on my car and it literally is hitting about 10psi. :lollipop:
Your tuner is wrong about the response decreasing with a bigger intercooler, I can touch the gas pedal on my car and it literally is hitting about 10psi. :lollipop:
