Tuor

Hi all,

I just joined and this is my first post. I'll be writing a decently long post, so I hope some people will find it interesting and we can get a good discussion going.
Couple disclaimers...it's not the first time I post on a public forum, and I am aware of the search button, but I'd like to get a thread going for my particular case so I can keep the questions/answers in one thread. I hope you guys can help me out.
To add my experiences and thoughts about the Evo X (and comparisons to other cars) see the "background info part" of my post.

If you want to cut to the chase, please see my questions below

Thanks!
Tuor



==================== QUESTIONS =====================

I'm new to modding and know next to nothing about it. My biggest questions are:

Is it reliable to mod an Evo X MR (with its fragile SST trans) or will it bite me back and cost me tens of thousands of bucks? I know that reliability is inversely proportional to HP/TQ. So what's commonly regarded limits? I hear 347 TQ is the official limit on the SST, so roughly 300 WTQ. Should this be considered the safe limit? What are your thoughts on the SSP 400/500/600 HP clutch packs? Would the car be reliable with at 400 WHP with a 500 HP clutch pack? Is this why COBB 400S kit is not offered on the MR on their website, but only GSR?

Secondly, how do people get around Provice (Canada) or State (US) inspections when say moving to new place? How about emissions and insurance?

What is the best and most reliable Evo X modding company out there? Top ones I've read about are AMS, COBB and SSP which all provided "staged" kits that are complete packages.
Which "kit" or company would you recommend for the safest, highest quality solution for a 350-400 WHP MR?

So far I've considered the AMS Stage 2, COBB Stage 2 and COBB 400S as the top choices.

Alberta folks...which is the best Evo X modding shop around here? Or is worth to take the drive to Chicago (AMS) or Portland/Texas (COBB) to have them mod the car?

Thanks in advance for your help!


============ BACKGROUND INFO - SKIP IF YOU WISH =============

So I will be looking to buy a car in a few months and I have roughly 15 months worth of "research" into which car I want. At work and among my friends there are folk who are into cars, so I have basically discussed about which car I'll be getting and cars in general for over a year daily. In this time, I have watched countless YouTube videos, read a good number of online and mag articles, and read a great number of posts on forums (including this one). I decided to sign up here, because it seems everytime I googled something about an Evo X, it'd bring me to this site. So thought I'd go straight to the source.

My objectives in a car have varied of this past year, but as of today, they are as follows:

1. A car that is an absolute blast to drive, above ALL else. 150% fun factor. 100% raw.

2. A sports car with great performance in all categories (not just straight line acceleration, but also cornering, breaking, handling, feedback etc.)

3. If I lived in California, I'd have bought a Corvette Z06 and called it a day with very minimal research. Truth is, I live in a place where there is snow on the ground from October to May (Alberta, Canada). So, out of necessity, I need a car that will not kill me in winter. But I went a step further, and believe in taking advantage of your surroundings and making them a plus. So I started getting interested in Rallying, and high performance winter driving. Hence, I want a car that is a sports car that performs year round, and is fun/safe to drive even in a snow storm.

4. My budget has always been under 40,000 CAD (which = 40,000 US these days). For this reason, I have also considered importing from the US depending on the car. I'd prefer to pay something closer to 30,000 and depending on the car, I'd be willing to stretch to 45,000 if it's REALLY worth it.

5. Reliability (including mods).

6. Low cost maintenance, low cost insurance, and good fuel economy are all pluses, but they dont decide things unless they are extreme. I dont want neither 40 mpg nor 10 mpg.

7. A "special" car. A car, that is in some way or another "extraordinary". You'll find that the cars I've considered in my search have all something extraordinary about them.

The cars I have considered have always been the same, which is an indication that they are serious top contenders and that I know what I'm looking for:

As of today, the current top choic:

1. Evo X MR - Test driven

As of today, the serious contenders:

2. E92 M3 - Test driven twice
3. 2011 STI - Will test drive this Saturday (test drove 2010 model)
4. E46 M3 - Test driven twice (SMG and manual)

Less serious contenders:
5. 5.0 Mustang GT - Test driven and rented
6. Porsche 911 Carrera (997) - Will test drive
7. Mustang Boss 302 - Might test drive out of curiosity
8. 370Z - Will test drive soon

Cars I have completely ruled out that were considered at the beginning:

1. Evo X GSR - test driven
2. 911 Turbo (996) - will not test drive
3. 911 Carrera (996) - Test driven
4. Corvette C6 2008 Z51 - will not test drive
5. Corvette C6 Z06 - will not test drive
6. RX-8 - test driven

Here is the logic behind ruling out the cars, based on my experience over the past year.

5. 5.0 Mustang GT - I can feel the live real axle. I rented the thing and carved up the curvy roads of the Canadian Rockies...it just does not inspire confidence like an Evo or M3. And it's a rental car....everybody and their dog has one. Plus, 57/43 weight distribution front engine RWD dont help in the snow...
6. Porsche 911 Carrera (997) - It's a good car, except it doesnt have that "special car" feel and it's at the bottom of the 911 food chain. No upgradablity, and not the most practical of cars. If I had to get a porsche, I'd either aim for a GT3 997...or just forget about it. Now THAT is a "special" car. Of course, for that price...a Gallardo or F360 is much more special....
7. Mustang Boss 302 - At the moment, too expensive...not the greatest car for the Canadian winter, and mustangs depreciate way too much when near-new.
8. 370Z - Lacks the "special" car feel, not easily moddable (no turbo)
1. Evo X GSR - It's the loudest car I have ever been in. Instant headache and stress guaranteed. Seriously...I think they should ban 5-speed manuals from anything that has more than 150HP. And all that noise...to save what, 30 lbs? Seriuosly who comes up with these ideas...
2. 911 Turbo (996) - I'm not gonna pay 45,000 CAD and get a car that is 10 years old, with over 80,000 km, and an interior like that!
3. 911 Carrera (996) - Google "RMS engine failure" or "911 intermediate shaft bearing failure".
4. Corvette C6 2008 Z51 - Refer to point 3 of my car requirements
5. Corvette C6 Z06 - Refer to point 3 of my car requirements
6. RX-8 - I was fascinated by a car that competed for best 10 handling cars of america (along with R8s, M3s and GTRs) and costs 12,000 CAD and can get 400 whp with a turbo kit...But they are unreliable when modded, gas guzzlers for no good reason. Stock they can probably get matched by an Echo...

Looking at the top 3 contenders, here's why they are still in the game:

1. E92 M3. This car is a legend, and it won every single car magazine contest and review, the engine is an award-winning jewel, it's fast, handles like a dream, is luxurious, looks fantastic, sounds amazing...what more could you want from life? Well....a lower cost. The M3 pushes my budget. They are starting to come down in the Canadian market (finally getting to see some between 45-50,000) but that's still too high. In the US they can be had from 38-45,000....problem is with fees and inspections, can easily end up paying over 5K on top of it...plus all the work to get it imported. It's just too expensive, and too much of a hassle right now.

And believe it or not...there is one bad thing I can say about the M3. It feels too "refined" to be called a true sports car. I do thing it's the best all-around multi-purpose do-it-all-has-it-all car in the world...but I do want a "Raw" car.

2. E46 M3. This car is also a legend, and I do love it. It was one of the most fun test drives I've done. I took ramps at 100 km/h in second gear at 8000 rpm....few things can beat that (Evo X is one of them). I love the fact that it's small, nimble, has a great sounding engine, love that it revs so high.
But, the M3 is old, it has old technology, and it has been surpassed by everybody even if it is still a legendary car. In fact, with an HPF turbo and 500+ whp, it still is able to leave everything in it's wake....but the HPF turbo costs 13 grand...and its money that will never return...

3. The STI is the closest competitor to the Evo. From all that I've read, it trades "rawness" and "pure track car feel" with DD practicality, a real trunk and a 6th gear. So it becomes a question whether a 6-gear manual and a real trunk outweight the pure fun and thrill of driving an Evo X MR. I believe the answer is 99% no. However, I will test drive the 2011 Sti this weekend...so I'll wait till the final judgement.

And now, to the reason why the X MR is the top choice:

1. It is the most fun and "raw" car I've driven to date, which is my first and top requirement in a car.
2. It's a legendary, exceptional and "special" car that has traits that no other car in the world has, including arguably the best Dual Clutch transmission in the world and the best AWD system in the world. Add the amazing Recaro sport seats, and it's amazing handling in all weather conditions while carrying 4 people confortably...and you can quickly see how there is no other car like it.
3. Granted, it's not the fastest thing I've driven in a straight line (I think that award goes to the 414 HP E92 M3) but that is of little concern to me considering 08s have a horrible tune and the aftermarket will turn the Evo into a 12.5 second car in no time and no money.
4. The aftermarket for the Evo really attracs me. I've never modded a car before, but the idea of owning a customized car just how i like it, with incredible performance, for little money (compared to stock cars that are of similar performance) just thrills me. 350-400 WHP can be had for less than 6 grand.
5. Good on maintenance costs, insurance, re-sale and decent on fuel economy.

=================== END BACKGROUND INFO ===============

Sev

iTrader: (10)

If I didn't buy the Evo, my next choice was the E46.

Can't answer this since I don't know much about the MR Tranny. I own a GSR.

Again, can't answer accurately because I've never been through this, but I think you'll have to put your stock cat back on rather than a Test Pipe. I think an HFC will work.

My personal favorite is ETS, but there really is no best. AMS and ETS both make quality parts, so does COBB.

I'm not local, sorry.

Sorry if I'm useless, lol!

EV0L-IX-MR

Evo any day of the week over all your other choices. I live in Calgary. I got a IX MR and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Emissions here I don't think are a big deal considering mine passed out of country and out of province with a 3" TBE with no cat. If you want a fun car that's just as fun on the streets as it is on the track get the evo. I bang the crap out of mine on track days and it's never seen snow however it manages to last if you invest the time and money into maintaining it as far as the transmission goes I wouldnt worry about it to much my buddy has a 09 X mr that he abuses more than a Thai hooker and it runs like it's still new. It's all about preference I looked into m3's Evo x and decided to get the one I always wanted and it honestly puts a smile on my face every time turn that key and some times even puts smiles on the m3 owners girlfriends when I blow past them. PM if your in the Calgary area and come out to our final track day and you can decide than after we all take you for rides.

EV0L-IX-MR

Oh and as far as aftermarket parts go it's all in what you prefer and what kind of power gains you want. I personally only stick to hks and ams but at the same time my friends prefer buschar or ets.

cla2000

iTrader: (2)

An m3 is great but not so much in the winter. If i lived somewhere down south, tham maybe a boss 302 laguna seca would have been the best for me, but than again i need 4 doors, so the m3 would be an option, granted a much more expensive one. I have a gsr with the leather package, which i believe also ads the same sound proofing as the mr, but only has 5 gears, which are enough most of the time except long highway road trips. Anyway, the evo is a loud car, compared to my volvo, or my sold c230.
There will be a few more options in the near future. Vw gti r, volvo has a new awd rocket, and the audi tt rs will top them all i think, but at m3 cost. So i guess good luck in ur decision, but for right now u might be limited to the evo. I think tho, the evo is the most mod friendly car of all, and the options and routes u have with the evo are allmost endless.

mp72

It looks like you are doing your homework choosing a car. To make things easier, just get the Evo X. It handles better than anything else on the road. Get a new Evo X before they are gone. 2012 might be the last year to get a new X.

My car passes CA emissions with a high flow cat. Mods in my signature. If I have any issues with a visual test, I have the stock cat in the garage and can easily put it on for a few days. I have no idea what people do with heavily modded 500whp cars when it comes time for smog check. I know there are some dirty smog shops that will pass you, but I don’t have any experience with this.

If you plan on modding your car, make sure you can do it locally or somewhat locally. I would avoid transporting your car somewhere far to have it done. What will you do for maintenance or what if something breaks or doesn’t work out right?

If you’re looking to make 400whp on a mustang dyno, you will most likely need an aftermarket turbo to achieve this. If you keep the stock turbo and have supporting mods, you can reach 300-350whp on a mustang dyno.

Get one and post some pics!

EV0L-IX-MR

+1

Johnr352

iTrader: (18)

I'm almost tempted to say the M3, if only in deference to your considerable verbosity... I kid.

- I suggest you worry less about stages and a complete kit and focus on finding a local shop and tuner well set up to take care of you. Achieving your HP target will be simple enough and there are tons of great manufacturers out there from which to choose parts, but you'll need some help putting them on. A good conservative custom tune for your specific motor will go a lot farther to ensure reliable performance over time. A good shop is going to be key when something breaks, and it always does.

As far as ensuring reliability with your transmission given a certain HP, talk to Jeremy at SSP. He'll take care of you.

Tuor

PM sent

Just recently read an article saying the R20 is just a GTI on steroids and doesnt even come close to an Evo or STI. R20 and Audi cost too much and dont have the performance to match the price. Volvo...what's that? They make busses dont they? :P

I agree. Cars that handle better just cost a lot more (M3, Z06, GT3, GTR etc). And that's dry handling. On the wet/snow...only a GTR could beat an Evo I think...and an STI could match it...I'm looking at 2008 Evos...for price reasons. There are a few out there with low kms.

That's what I heard...you find a shop that will pass you...word of mouth etc. But it's good to hear that from your experience, it seems the Cat is the main component that affects emissions. And I dont plan on removing the Cat anyways...

That's interesting to hear. My original thought was that if I go to COBB or AMS headquarters or their facilities, the work done will be the best, so I wont have to worry about things breaking. And if they break...take it to a local shop but at least the initial work would be done at the source. Granted I'd have like 20-30 hour drives...but it'd be a fun road trip 250 whp on the way there, 350-400 whp on the way back :P

What are the best shops in Alberta for Evo Xs?


Honestly, I'm not a WHP maniac. I would trade a few tenths of a second for reliability any day. My goal is to achieve the highest "safe" WHP/WTQ for an SST tranny with the least possible hardware change. If stock turbo, injectors and pump will only get me 350 whp...I'm fine with that if it means keeping stock reliability at least for those components. But if a tune and HP/TQ is what affects reliability the most...then I'd focus on that.

Honestly, If i could get teh COBB 400S kit on the MR with some 500 WHP SSP clutches (for the added safety factor) and an SSP or AMS tranny cooler...I'd be one happy camper and it'd be more than enough HP/TQ. Heck even 350 WHP is more than enough for me at this point. And I could get that with an AMS Stage 2 with an AMS tranny cooler...that's be an AMS-only components installed by AMS....what more could you want?

Revobasher

All you need is NOS dude.. two of the big ones...

EV0L-IX-MR

Thing is dude you can take it any where in the world to get it tuned but as soon as you get back to Calgary your tune will be useless due to our high evelation. So local would be best.

Tuor

Cant the guys at COBB or AMS compensate for the elevation changes? I mean what if I an evo tuned by AMS in Chicago (600 ft elevation) to Aspen (like 12,000 ft?). Will the engine blow up on me?

Btw, today I test drove the 2011 Sti. I'm much more impressed than my last test drive of a 2010 model. The suspension felt great. Stiff but still confortable. It handled bumps great, it felt faster than an Evo X, accelerated better, had better low end torque/power, and sounded 10x better.

It is also 10x more practical thanx to the huge trunk. I wasnt aware of the 3 TC settings it has, so I went and read about the STI AWD system, and I was shocked. It felt like I was reading the Space Shuttle manual!!! 3 settings of throttle responsiveness (SI-DRIVE), 3 automatic settings for DCCD (Driver Controlled Center Differential) for varying front-rear torque split as well as a driver operated manual setting. And 3 settings of the VDC (Vehicle Dynamics Control) "VDC Normal" , "Traction" and "off".

I was amazed...I read also that the Suburu AWD is supposed to be better than the Evo SAWD in snow/dirt/gravel.

But then again, I also recently saw comparsisons and the Evo X came on top on a Rallying comparison, as well as magazine comparisons where they all say the Evo X's steering feedback is better, feel is heavier, handling sharper, and less/no understeer.

Mitsu sales people are awesome and I've done 110 km/h runs on highway ramps and I know how well it handles in a corner. Unfortunately, the Suburu guys have no ***** and so it was a quick test drive and I didnt get to do a single decent corner so I dont know how the heck it compares...

FOr those of you who were able to drive both to the limits (or close), how do they compare stock vs stock?

How is the aftermarket? I hear Evo has a bigger aftermarket, cheaper, and can get more HP reliability vs. the STI.

Thanks
Tuor