I checked the pump, injector and entire fuel circuit. Everything seemed ok. Injectors were within ohm tolerance, pump worked. i couldn't check alot a FI factors without the Mitsu scan tool.
I plan on sending injjectors and pump to RC for cleaning and analysis.
Once I pulled the head, it seems #3 took the worst. Top of piston completely melted, valve head melted into cyl and bounced around. #4 cyl started to melt piston.
My initial thought is lean condition due to tune (I can't remember if I logged after I changed scalling rom 550/550 to 680/680), and possibly #3 injector gone bad.
Maybe these injectors were never matched well from the get go, and the #3 and #4 were flowing much less than 1 and 2? When I jumped the pump with a spare car battery, I pumped fine. I didn't see and vacuum hoses off or kinked fuel lines.
Everything was visually fine.
I know I need pistons and maybe oversize. I'm not sure if the head is salvagable. Any machine shop guys chime in on head?
I'll post results of injectors and pump when I get them back from RC.
The thing in #3 is the valve head!

 

More pics of head.

 

Ouch man, So what are you going to do now? Are you going to build a motor now ??

 

doesnt look so bad. Maybe time for a stage V head depending on the warpage... I remember seeing a thread where this guy welded a head back to normal.

 

Get a new built block, for only $2,300.00

 

Send it to Japan get Jun to build it

 

Ouch. I'm not a metal machinast, but it looks like you might be able to keep the same sized pistons/cylinders without oversize.... although 3 does look bad, like you said.

A friend had a Type-R motor blow due to nitrous, it looked worse than yours, and he didn't have to go over-sized. So hopefully you won't either.

The bright side is now you can rebuild the motor right and stroke it out!

-Jason

P.S. I noticed you are in AZ. Let me know if you need anything. Tools, help, time, whatever. Peace.

 

Couple of questions. How much boost were you running?? Did you have your head bolts replaced and has the head been off the block previously. Seen a very familar failure on the Waste Sports car during a high speed test for Option mag.

 

Check if the block is gouged if it isnt it's a very very easy rebuild. there are standard bore forged pistons you can upgrade to at this time.

Can't see in the pic of the head is damaged, hopefully you didnt melt that.

Pull the pistons and check for det damage in the ring land area also on the rest.


Sean

 

Yah, the head looks salvagable if it isn't warped or developed any cracks, visually I just can't tell.. That piston definitely looks like detonation..

Like you said, its hard to tell from the pics, but if the cylinder walls didn't get gouged, you probably can get away with a bit of clean up and stock-sized pistons..

Call Buschur, he should have stock sized and oversized forged pistons, I think their J&E.. I got some pricing on the Crower setup, its a complete billet crank, sick looking forged rods, and J&E forged pistons, your looking at almost $4000 for their stroker kit... Eagles kit uses a stock 4G94 (truck?) crank, their own rods, and their own (to spec) pistons.

If you REALLY need a set of stock pistons, rods, crank and you want to save some money, I have a set of stockers in good condition let me know if you end up needing them.

I hate to say this, but if you altered that injector scaling and didn't retune, its possible you inadvertantly ran real lean. Its odd that particular cylinder let go, but anything can happen when your dealing with engines. Your on the right track having the pump and fuel injectors checked.. At the least there's nothing wrong, at the worst, you'll know that they have to be replaced. You might also want to test the low/high pump speed circuit to be sure the signal to increase pump voltage actually got to the pump..

 

Uh oh. I did right after I changed to the 1.7 firmware. In fact, I started with 550/625 to keep on the richer side just in case. I ended up having to add most everywhere and a good 8-10% up to top to maintain the 11.3-11.1:1 AFR. I found that odd since I only scaled 12% on 20% larger injectors...if anything, I should've had to still pull out 8-10%. I messed around with that for a day or so and then set it back to 550/550 and just retuned from there.

Please post your results from the injectors when you get them back. If RC still includes flow test records with their service, you will see that those 680s are probably much more like 660s. I don't know who started calling them that, but unless they were actually flowed in CC for measurement, they are were probably originally mass rated injectors (65lb/min). The conversion to volume (CC) is based on the specific density of the fuel, but most people use an average of 10.2 or so. Apparently someone stepped up with a 10.5 conversion factor and "680s" were born. From what I am told, 65lb/min will rarely ever flow 680cc/min on an bench with standard pressure (43.5psi).

Long story short to anyone who buys "680s" over "650s/660s": don't think you've increase your margin/fuel supply capacity one iota. Unless they come with a flow chart to show actual volume, they are most likely all "65lb/min" injectors...even 625s.

This has nothing to do with your personal situation...no matter injectors you use, they are tuned to what you need regardless, but I am just curious what a "680s" really flow.

Like everyone else said, it's difficult to tell from the pics, but if the block doesn't require boring, you will be in much better shape in terms of labor and cost. Obviously, get the head cleaned up and definitely have the the valves/rods checked for any stress issues. Take a close look at the main bearings too when you pull the girdle to remove the pistons/rods. If you're looking at only new pistons and some CC area clean-up on the head, that is about as optimistic as the diagnosis could've been, so that would be good news...

 

If you tuned the car with the scaling 550/550 on the new injectors and didn't completely retune the car when you changed the scaling to 680/680 you pulled about 20% of your pulse width out and ran really lean. This will kill a motor very quickly.

-Nathan

 

I spent all weekend adjusting, logging and finaly got it starting, idleing and running good.
When MJ posted this (Not implicating him at fault in any way), I didn't eevn think twice. I changed my OLF scaling from 550/550 to 680/680. I don't think I ran a log after that. I assumed it would have the same injector pulses; guess it didn't. Now I'm paying.
Pretty sure this is what did in my motor. I'm still sending the injectors off due to the fact that the majority of detonation was in one cylinder (#3).
Live and learn.

 

WOW,, This sucks man, i hope you fix your car soon....

 

Someone from TXS explained the OLF thing in another thread. I guess I still don't understand the logistics of "how", but as he explains it (or as I took his explanation of it), the stock/mod injector sizing is only used to compute scaling under the OLF threshold/0% column. 10-100% columns do not do that, but use some "size value" for injectors without looking at the stock size at all. I still don't get how it knows how much to scale the injectors for 10-100% without some kind of reference point. If 550 is preset somewhere in the Evo UTEC code, why bother with a setting for it in the parameters?

From what he says, to me it sounds like 550/660 is what would be used to scale 0%/under OLF threshold, but what MJ asked directly, he said plug in 660/660? So, according to TXS at least, the way you set both #s the same was correct, but if you were tuned on 550/550 and just changed the scaling to 680/680, you took out a TON of fuel

My thinking is the same as yours was though....550/550 and 680/680 would yield the same scaling: 0%. Apparently and obviously this is not the case. Seems like an honest mistake to me, but a costly one. TXS should detail the stock/mod injector sizes more so anyone who thinks the same as far as the ratios go doesn't make the same mistake...