Oh.. and fuel economy.. My turbo just doesnt spool while driving around town so thats not an issue but i do see it for a smaller turbo being useful

I guess i never thought about it logically before.

 

For me, the more cockpit control I have, the more I prefer it.. I'm as old-school as it gets (I have a 78 malibu with a supercharger, its getting slowly converted to fuel injection with twin turbochargers and entirely managed electronically) I am definitely not attempting to stick with the older and more difficult way of doing things.. Not that an MBC is more difficult, but I live in a climate where tempurature varies wildly, so adjustments daily are almost necessary, and of course, you can get spiking if you don't on a cool night.. (As you can see by the graph.. )

 

I am so excited about this little log viewer thingy. You should have told me about it earlier

I guess I love as much control as I can get to a point. That is why I chose the Utec as opposed to a complete standalone like I was going to. The Utec gives me the control if I want it but if I dont want to screw around I dont need to. This will make my learning curve MUCH faster. I have already gotten alot better at tuning the stupid car in the last few days. I looked at the logs with the Data Log Viewer thing and I dont think I am doing too bad at all... it claims that i am around 450 on my 25-26psi tune and around 345 at my 18-19. That seems OK to me and seems to be relatively accurate. I think I could get alot more power out of each so now I will screw around some more with timing and such. Too bad every real tuner has thier own secret way of making power. Shawn from Elite Motorsports makes over 700 to the ground and from the logs i have seen from his car he locks the timing to around 15 degrees throughout the power range. When my friend tried the same it made his car stupid slow... I guess I will learn my own secret sauce after a while :P

 

M Jack, you should send me the actual file of the power graph as well. I think it is very interesting to show how much more power you make than me at lower RPMs. Maybe people will start to see why big turbos like mine are not good for every day street cruising or for lower boost... at pump gas boost levels my car is just dumb.. barely makes more power than yours and loses a TON before it actually hits. Alot of people dont think of the whole power band when they look at dynos.. just the top numbers. The only way my car would honestly beat yours is on a long 3rd or 4th gear pull. If we both start rolling at 10mph I would be screwed hard. The only time my turbo is actually noticably better would be at 25psi or more where i start to make up for all the lost HP down low.

Maybe I will go out sometime later and get some more 110 and mix it in my tank and see if I can make a nifty chart like yours (Ill probably copy it verbatim) except write my mods instead of yours obviously so people can compare two cars dramatically differently setup but probably roughly the same type tune... nothing extrodinary and not going for pure peak power... just a rough tune to make it work ok. I think this would open up most peoples eyes and keep alot of people from deciding that a huge turbo is what they need.

 

Yah, thats actually a very good idea, Similarities will make it easier.. I've always been a "Street guy" so I basically targetted producing the most torque and the largest usable torque curve (which I feel I'm accomplishing pretty well) Since my car's weight, and wheel selection was slightly different, I ended up having to alter my car definition to reflect it, I also set the smoothing to 2.. My car is quick, but at this point it definitely doesn't feel all that fast.. What I do find interesting is how stable the boost is at around 22psi now, and that I never made a full run through 7800rpm and my HP was still climbing at that point..

If I was running race gas or water injection, Id actually be able to put quite a bit more timing into the sauce, and probably pick up another 60hp and 40-50lbft of torque.. (since I had a WI kit at one point that I was evaluating and I was playing with an aggressive tune that made the car silly fast)

 

My car can definitely burn a quarter much quicker than the HP numbers indicate in those graphs, but I lose steam at half-track and my ET's and traps just get terminal at that point..

 

I am actually very surprised at how well your power holds and pulls up top without cams (Or I didnt see if you do have them). Mine still makes great power after 7k but I need a lot of attention to my tune. The car SHOULD be gaining power past 7 but doesnt seem to be by as much as I would have thought... sheetmetal intake and cams and such I thought would make it pull harder and harder.

I also need to research much more about timing (Finding out how much timing where helps. I really like your torque curve. Your 'bad' tune seems pretty good to me

 

I re-examined yours and my power graphs.. it seems yours does start to fall off after 6k and mine does pull harder and harder. I guess I need to actually make a run to the mid 7ks to see a better picture but my 4th gear pull is definately pulling hard when I let off right before 7k. Im glad you showed me this because now I can actually sorta get an idea of how my changes really are effecting the car.

 

Your Power (361 hp @ 7062 rpm) Your Torque (306 lbft @ 5849 rpm)

Point RPM HP RPM Torque

R1 2257 25.7878 2257 58.6519
R2 2294.5 27.1521 2294.5 61.4144
R3 2336 32.667 2336 72.8253
R4 2366 36.8083 2366 80.6773
R5 2412.5 41.4441 2412.5 89.3284
R6 2477.5 44.3765 2477.5 93.6926
R7 2540.5 48.7559 2540.5 101.016
R8 2585 50.2312 2585 101.897
R9 2642.5 51.8091 2642.5 102.671
R10 2708.5 52.5575 2708.5 101.977
R11 2761 56.6076 2761 107.407
R12 2822.5 59.2225 2822.5 109.906
R13 2879.5 61.6069 2879.5 111.962
R14 2945 61.6106 2945 109.834
R15 3023.5 65.2207 3023.5 113.826
R16 3073.5 66.1215 3073.5 112.958
R17 3122.5 70.2709 3122.5 117.421
R18 3200.5 71.5485 3200.5 117.027
R19 3269 79.1126 3269 126.727
R20 3337 81.3266 3337 127.842
R21 3410 86.6676 3410 133.274
R22 3485 87.6135 3485 131.811
R23 3559 95.6704 3559 140.896
R24 3631.5 99.1349 3631.5 142.644
R25 3714 106.461 3714 150.074
R26 3799 110.24 3799 151.979
R27 3892 117.824 3892 159.001
R28 3973 122.558 3973 161.631
R29 4058 128.313 4058 165.526
R30 4156.5 137.839 4156.5 173.414
R31 4251.5 154.648 4251.5 189.508
R32 4343 169.427 4343 202.722
R33 4463 187.55 4463 218.494
R34 4611.5 204.643 4611.5 232.299
R35 4731.5 227.107 4731.5 250.712
R36 4863.5 244.671 4863.5 262.073
R37 5020.5 265.01 5020.5 275.546
R38 5173 284.581 5173 287.173
R39 5347 304.629 5347 298.878
R40 5510 317.174 5510 302.039
R41 5675 327.876 5675 303.43
R42 5849 340.402 5849 305.881
R43 6006.5 347.367 6006.5 303.721
R44 6167.5 348.722 6167.5 297.493
R45 6344 346.923 6344 288.65
R46 6498 350.878 6498 284.896
R47 6620.5 351.966 6620.5 279.217
R48 6762 351.33 6762 273.449
R49 6923 355.615 6923 272.938
R50 7062 361.182 7062 274.53


Here is a data set of one of my 18-19psi pulls.. just so people can sort of compare the two power curves. I will try to get some more data and get a few more pulls and maybe you could send me a few graphs of your pulls and I can throw em together and post em up for people to see. I find this very interesting which I am sure people will start to look at what they truly want... a turbo like mine that is probably slower in any normal situation on pump gas but on race gas you have the ability to make huge numbers or a turbo like stock that makes an awesome torque curve and still could make mid 400's on race gas.

 

Keep in mind I cut my run at 6200rpm, so the sample drops off, if I didn't let off, it would have climbed higher and probably began to fall off around 7k, if I could keep the torque curve going flat, the HP would just keep climbing..

I noticed the last few samples get "Dragged down" when you dump a run so it looks like it fell off.. It definitely was tapering off, but should have held pretty flat until about 7000rpm then fallen off (the demise of the stock cams and limits of the stock 9.8 turbine housing)

I might have forgotten to mention, Stock Cams, Stock Turbo, and a catalytic converter..

 

But if you only looked at peaks, you'd think both of our cars were pretty similar..

 

Thats why I kinda want to make both graphs and make them on one graph so people can actually see the difference

I went out and got the car running slightly better... Made it so there is no 10.xx:1 anywhere through the RPM's... still somewhat rich so should be a real safe tune as well.. peak is now about 420 on pump at 20 psi.

I am so glad you sent this over to me so now i can at least get a better idea of what i do is helping or hurting. May not be perfectly accurate but anything more helps. Here is a pic of the newest...

 

ok well I actually screwed that one up... It should be this: Oops.. and i was getting so excited too