I am finally going to get my WR and UTEC drunk, or maybe even go for the hard stuff and run meth, not sure which one yet. Alky is pretty close in price around here but I haven't found any place that carries methanol. Just a few questions.

What should my target afr's be from 3500-redline? 12.0 down to 11.3 right now
What should my idle/cruise afr be? right now they are at a pretty steady 14.5-14.8

I know that running alky/meth will increase my afr's quite a bit, but how much timing is everyone running? I think right now my upper rpm timing is at 22 or so. Here is my most recent log on 93 oct.

2730, -6.2, 328,100, 10, 00, 11.7, 13.8,+10.0, -5.0,ECU. , 459
2815, -2.7, 380,100, 10, 00, 11.5, 13.9, +9.6, -5.3,ECU. , 353
2822, +1.2, 423,100, 10, 00, 11.4, 15.7, +9.3, -6.1,ECU. , 314
2871, +2.4, 460,100, 10, 00, 11.5, 17.7, +9.0, -6.8,ECU. , 347
2955, +3.6, 537,100, 10, 00, 11.3, 20.5, +7.9, -7.5,ECU. , 611
3046, +5.3, 580,100, 10, 00, 11.3, 22.3, +6.9, -8.8,ECU. , 541
3138, +6.7, 676,100, 10, 00, 11.7, 23.3, +6.1, -9.5,ECU. , 679
3284, +8.7, 776,100, 10, 00, 11.3, 31.1, +5.1,-10.9,ECU. , 710
3394,+10.8, 888,100, 10, 00, 11.1, 35.2, +5.0,-12.1,ECU. , 737
3534,+13.4,1048,100, 20, 00, 10.8, 42.0, +4.8,-13.7,ECU. , 741
3695,+16.7,1152,100, 30, 00, 10.8, 47.8, +4.9,-16.7,ECU. , 654
3853,+19.8,1113,100, 30, 00, 10.7, 44.9, +5.3,-19.0,ECU. , 776
3977,+22.6,1154,100, 40, 00, 11.0, 46.6, +5.7,-20.9,ECU. ,1041
4166,+24.4,1272,100, 40, 00, 11.4, 47.8, +6.1,-22.1,ECU. , 980
4368,+25.5,1219,100, 40, 00, 11.5, 49.1, +6.7,-22.5,ECU. ,1072
4504,+25.3,1385,100, 40, 00, 11.6, 48.4, +7.3,-22.8,ECU. , 996
4668,+25.1,1344,100, 50, 00, 11.7, 50.8, +7.3,-22.8,ECU. ,1131
4880,+24.9,1377,100, 50, 00, 11.6, 52.5, +7.4,-23.2,ECU. ,1162
5020,+24.2,1543,100, 50, 00, 11.5, 58.3, +7.5,-24.0,ECU. ,1126
5192,+24.2,1488,100, 60, 00, 11.3, 59.3, +7.7,-23.4,ECU. ,1250
5341,+24.2,1644,100, 60, 00, 11.3, 60.2, +8.4,-24.1,ECU. ,1282
5546,+23.8,1628,100, 60, 00, 11.1, 58.3, +9.6,-25.1,ECU. ,1146
5698,+23.8,1650,100, 70, 00, 11.3, 65.1,+10.2,-26.9,ECU. ,1336
5889,+23.6,1742,100, 70, 00, 11.3, 67.7,+12.0,-27.0,ECU. ,1237
6027,+23.4,1779,100, 70, 00, 11.2, 66.3,+13.8,-27.0,ECU. ,1173
6172,+23.2,1792,100, 70, 00, 11.1, 65.9,+15.2,-27.5,ECU. ,1366
6361,+23.2,1811,100, 70, 00, 11.1, 69.6,+16.3,-27.8,ECU. ,1336
6510,+23.0,1845,100, 80, 00, 11.0, 68.0,+17.1,-28.5,ECU. ,1373
6693,+23.0,1851,100, 80, 00, 11.1, 69.6,+19.1,-29.1,ECU. ,1366
6788,+22.8,1886,100, 80, 00, 11.2, 69.8,+20.6,-29.5,ECU. ,1315
6944,+22.0,1923,100, 80, 00, 11.1, 69.8,+21.3,-29.2,ECU. ,1436
7092,+22.0,1901,100, 80, 00, 10.6, 73.1,+21.9,-29.2,ECU. ,1396
7246,+21.8,1908,100, 80, 00, 10.7, 72.3,+22.3,-28.7,ECU. ,1453
7342,+21.8,1923,100, 80, 00, 10.7, 73.3,+22.4,-29.0,ECU. ,1461
7490,+22.0,1968,100, 80, 00, 10.6, 75.9,+22.4,-28.6,ECU. ,1436

 

Can you run that tune in 4th gear to redline without knock on 93? If so, your car is a lot more knock resistant than mine.

The alky will actually decrease your AFRs (richer), not increase them. Your cruise AFR should be unaffected because the alky won't be flowing except under boost. As far as AFRs under boost with the alky, I think it depends on how much alky you are injecting and how much you want to be dependent on the system. You could inject a lot of alky and tune for 12:1, but if it fails for some reason you'll likely go super lean and hurt a piston even if the ECU pulls timing when it hears knock. If you keep the AFRs closer to low 11s (or even high 10s) and are able to do so without misfires, then your motor will stand a chance if the alky fails -- but you'll sacrifice power. Same issue with timing. If you push your timing up to 24 or so up top, you'll make a lot more power but you'll be hurting if the system falters.

And as far as target AFRs, you should be thinking in Lambda rather than AFR. Who knows what the target AFR should be for a mix of gas and alky, but the Lambda should still be about the same, or a little leaner. Some widebands like the Innovate LM-1 are Lambda based already so you can just tune for 11.0 or 12.0, as you decide, but that's not what the real AFR will be. I know this is kind of confusing. Check out the Innovate Motorsport forum for some good technical advice on alky tuning from Klaus and other knowledgeable folks on that board.

Hope that helps.

 

I actually use the LC-1. I know I can change it to Lambda but not too sure on how to read the numbers, never really had a need since afr is a little easier.

Yes I can run that in 4th. I had knock in 4th near 7k but I leaned it out just a little bit and the knock didn't come back. It's not very often I hit redline in 4th but do on back roads here.

I was thinking of leaning it out to about 11.7-11.8 and turn up the boost, possibly back the timing off 1-2 degrees to start off with, then leave the afr's where they are at and just play with the timing.

 

Is that a 3rd gear run log above? What size injectors do you have? I'm just curious because my 3rd gear log from going to the strip yesterday shows similar peak airflow at the top of third (about 1970), but my AFRs are in the 11.2 range (rather than the high 10s as your log shows) and my duty cycle is at 87% at the top of 3rd with 660 injectors. And I'm running about 18 degrees at 7000 and 18.8 degrees at 7500.

 

Yup the regular on ramp 3rd gear pull, I am using 780's. I am using the WR turbo also, so that might make the difference since it holds boost a little better. I can try and get a 4th gear pull but it won't be for a few days since work is calling for me to come in tomorrow.

 

Just realized you are using the WR also.

Just remebered also that my timing map and fuel map has changed over the last few days but it still is very close to what that pull is.

Are you using UCC at all, if so I can send you my map for comparison if you want.

 

I am using UCC, though I can see your WOT timing map just from the log. It's much more aggressive than what I can do on 93 without hitting knock. Maybe I'm running more boost? Do you have an open element filter too?

Don't do a 4th gear run on the street on my account. I never do that and wouldn't want you to be killed or thrown in jail in the interest of a UTEC tuning discussion!

 

With methanol aim for an 11.0:1 a/f, trust me on that one. Stick with stock timing and gradually increase to a safe level; not necc. tuning till you knock b/c there have been instances where motor's have let go w/o any sign of knock/detonation, and then there have been situations where motors actually perform the best with 2-3degrees (with high boost too). BTW keep an eye on EGT's as a last resort as well.

As far as idle/cruise it should idle around 14.7:1 a/f. HTH

 

No, no I can jump on the dyno and do it. One of my good friends has a MD here and I get heavily reduced prices. Plus i need to get back on there and see where I stand. When I last left the dyno I was running 10.1-10.3 after the WR install and have completely re-done my timing map, due to a lot of knock but that was determined to be too much fuel and "washing" out the cylinder. We pretty much had to let the dyno room air out after every run.

Actually I still have some of my 4th gear pulls when we were tuning but my laptop crashed since then so I'm not too sure if I still have them, they might have made to the dump bin.

 

Found one from one of my older posts, sorry no afrs here but this was in the 10.2 range. This is a 4th gear pull.


2172 -32.0 279 100 10 00 +15.1 11.2 +15.6 -2.0 ECU. 264
2213 -31.8 288 100 10 00 +14.3 11.5 +15.6 -2.0 ECU. 329
2279 -31.6 305 100 10 00 +14.8 13.1 +15.6 -2.1 ECU. 331
2370 -31.4 325 100 10 00 +14.1 13.3 +15.6 -2.4 ECU. 297
2427 -31.2 333 100 10 00 +14.8 13.6 +15.6 -2.8 ECU. 361
2474 -30.8 348 100 10 00 +14.1 13.5 +15.6 -3.0 ECU. 350
2568 -30.3 366 100 10 00 +14.5 13.9 +15.6 -3.2 ECU. 384
2632 -30.1 406 100 10 00 +14.6 15.8 +15.6 -3.2 ECU. 316
2703 -29.7 421 100 10 00 +13.5 15.9 +15.6 -3.2 ECU. 337
2829 -29.3 461 100 10 00 +13.5 19.8 +15.4 -3.7 ECU. 465
2908 -28.7 487 100 10 00 +11.4 21.3 +15.1 -4.4 ECU. 500
3016 -27.7 570 100 10 00 +11.5 23.6 +14.7 -5.7 ECU. 642
3086 -26.9 598 100 10 00 +8.2 25.8 +13.8 -6.9 ECU. 483
3208 -25.7 653 100 10 00 +7.7 29.6 +13.0 -7.9 ECU. 447
3343 -24.0 740 100 10 00 +7.6 35.0 +12.7 -9.7 ECU. 493
3508 -22.6 889 100 10 00 +6.7 41.1 +13.1 -11.2 ECU. 654
3658 -20.4 1033 100 20 00 +0.2 46.4 +10.4 -14.2 ECU. 936
3831 -17.7 1149 100 20 00 +1.2 53.0 +10.5 -14.9 ECU. 929
4035 -15.7 1131 100 30 00 +2.7 52.2 +11.2 -16.3 ECU. 796
4187 -13.4 1250 100 30 00 +2.6 54.7 +10.8 -17.2 ECU. 1050
4432 -12.0 1243 100 40 00 +2.7 57.6 +10.3 -18.5 ECU. 1091
4591 -11.2 1333 100 40 00 +3.9 58.3 +10.0 -18.8 ECU. 1054
4748 -10.8 1377 100 40 00 +3.9 57.8 +10.7 -18.8 ECU. 880
4952 -11.0 1420 100 40 00 +3.8 63.1 +10.5 -19.5 ECU. 1250
5136 -11.2 1449 100 50 00 +3.8 64.9 +10.7 -19.6 ECU. 1201
5324 -11.6 1479 100 50 00 +4.6 69.0 +10.9 -20.0 ECU. 1190
5464 -11.8 1547 100 50 00 +5.1 70.3 +11.0 -20.6 ECU. 1250
5630 -12.0 1562 100 60 00 +7.3 69.6 +12.1 -21.4 ECU. 1302
5817 -12.2 1623 100 60 00 +8.3 69.9 +13.0 -23.0 ECU. 1282
5984 -12.4 1683 100 60 00 +10.6 70.8 +13.5 -25.5 ECU. 1269
6138 -12.6 1748 100 60 00 +11.9 74.6 +15.0 -25.5 ECU. 1351
6337 -12.6 1754 100 70 00 +13.8 74.4 +16.4 -25.5 ECU. 1308
6472 -12.6 1766 100 70 00 +15.0 71.3 +17.6 -25.5 ECU. 1315
6640 -13.0 1798 100 70 00 +16.0 74.8 +18.1 -25.5 ECU. 1351
6775 -13.0 1851 100 70 00 +17.5 76.7 +18.4 -25.5 ECU. 1373
6915 -13.0 1851 100 70 00 +19.2 76.9 +18.7 -25.5 ECU. 1381
7062 -13.4 1893 100 70 00 +20.4 79.7 +19.1 -25.5 ECU. 1420
7215 -13.4 1845 100 70 00 +20.5 78.2 +19.8 -25.5 ECU. 1461
7326 -13.6 1845 100 70 00 +20.8 77.1 +20.3 -25.5 ECU. 1453
7440 -13.6 1818 100 70 00 +20.9 76.0 +20.4 -25.5 ECU. 1420

 

Is that pre-WR? Looks like you're getting boost taper up top in 4th. The timing and Karman numbers look much more tame on that last log than the 3rd gear log above.

EDIT: What type of intake/filter do you have?

 

No that is one of the logs during the WR tuning, i think.

I am using an AEM hard pipe with a SPW filter in the both runs. My best guess on the 4th gear run is when we were getting the EBC up to speed, not sure though.