Is ECU Timing Useful?
Is ECU Timing Useful?
Just curious as to the thoughts of those who are experienced UTEC tuners. I do a lot of logging and am pretty satisfied with my tune. However, my question is: Is the ECU Timing adjustments information useful to a tuner? IE. if the ECU is adding or pulling timing(adding in particular) do I still potentially have headroom for more aggressive timing settings? To carry this one step further(potentially into absurdity), would it be useful to tune to minimize the ECU making any adjustments?
Thanks for the inputs.
Technov
Thanks for the inputs.
Technov
if it is adding timing you are most likely gaining power, which means if you tune to those settings you have less room for error. under the perfect circumstances(cool, dry air) you probably see it pull timing at some rpm, this means it will have to pull more if you tune to the settings at warm or humid air(or high altitude) . i think you have a safe tune, it just depends on how risky you want to get.
watching the ECU Timing is a dead giveaway to knock or other conditions that you may not be able to otherwise tell.. you don't necessarily have to honor the timing or be close to it (though you should not stray too far as your tuning a little at a time)
i agree with malibu..
the timing the stock ecu is requesting, gives you information.
I use the stock ecu timing for my transition into my map, and then scale and taper accross my tables. It also shows you things such as knock etc... if you see the stock ecu taking a pretty big timing dump, that may tell you something.....
generally i will run up to close to the stock timing up top, at transition, and down low, but will taper my high load cells to suit the car i am working on in relation to the mods it has, referencing, afr's etc.
cheers
cb
the timing the stock ecu is requesting, gives you information.
I use the stock ecu timing for my transition into my map, and then scale and taper accross my tables. It also shows you things such as knock etc... if you see the stock ecu taking a pretty big timing dump, that may tell you something.....
generally i will run up to close to the stock timing up top, at transition, and down low, but will taper my high load cells to suit the car i am working on in relation to the mods it has, referencing, afr's etc.
cheers
cb
this is mildly related, but maybe jack can help me..
My utec is amazingly timing-happy. I call for 18 degrees, i get 30, that kinda thing. (up top)
any hints/ideas, etc are greatly appreciated.
My utec is amazingly timing-happy. I call for 18 degrees, i get 30, that kinda thing. (up top)
any hints/ideas, etc are greatly appreciated.
Originally Posted by WarmPepsi
this is mildly related, but maybe jack can help me..
My utec is amazingly timing-happy. I call for 18 degrees, i get 30, that kinda thing. (up top)
any hints/ideas, etc are greatly appreciated.
My utec is amazingly timing-happy. I call for 18 degrees, i get 30, that kinda thing. (up top)
any hints/ideas, etc are greatly appreciated.
I've only seen something similar to that when you have to scale the MAF significantly for injectors, since reducing the signal significantly can drive the timing up like that, are you sure thats 30 before TDC or after TDC? Sometimes when the ECU gets cranky it will want to fire after top dead center (like when you decel) usually that means it sees something is really wrong...
Originally Posted by MalibuJack
I've only seen something similar to that when you have to scale the MAF significantly for injectors, since reducing the signal significantly can drive the timing up like that, are you sure thats 30 before TDC or after TDC? Sometimes when the ECU gets cranky it will want to fire after top dead center (like when you decel) usually that means it sees something is really wrong...
i accidently over-wrote a few of my logs, so this is the best i have, a 3rd and 4th gear log.
You're probably gonna tell me i should switch to MAP reference, right?
Code:
4420, +5.3,1162, 91, 30, 00, 10.8, +13.0, 43.6, +7.8, +6.0,ECU. , 838 4591, +9.4,1231,100, 40, 00, 10.8, +12.9, 47.5, +6.5, +6.0,ECU. , 776 4741,+13.3,1265,100, 50, 00, 11.4, +14.1, 46.4, +5.1, +3.0,ECU. , 718 4901,+16.7,1272,100, 60, 00, 11.4, +13.2, 48.9, +5.3, +5.1,ECU. , 922 5065,+19.1,1308,100, 60, 00, 11.2, +13.2, 51.3, +5.6, +6.0,ECU. , 988 5232,+20.3,1420,100, 60, 00, 11.1, +13.2, 51.7, +6.0, +6.0,ECU. , 880 5367,+20.8,1432,100, 70, 00, 11.1, +13.3, 53.9, +5.9, +6.0,ECU. , 850 5491,+21.0,1461,100, 70, 00, 11.3, +13.1, 55.2, +6.0, +6.0,ECU. ,1020 5630,+21.0,1519,100, 70, 00, 11.3, +14.4, 55.7, +7.2, +6.0,ECU. ,1020 5787,+21.0,1466,100, 70, 00, 11.0, +15.5, 56.6, +8.4, +6.0,ECU. ,1126 5931,+20.8,1543,100, 80, 00, 11.2, +17.2, 57.4, +9.0, +6.0,ECU. ,1046 6082,+20.8,1547,100, 80, 00, 11.2, +18.3, 59.5, +9.8, +6.0,ECU. ,1068 6230,+20.5,1543,100, 80, 00, 11.0, +19.6, 60.8,+10.8, +6.0,ECU. ,1106 6361,+20.3,1587,100, 80, 00, 11.0, +20.6, 61.5,+11.9, +6.0,ECU. , 980 6485,+20.3,1655,100, 80, 00, 11.2, +21.7, 62.7,+13.0, +6.0,ECU. ,1077 6613,+20.1,1683,100, 90, 00, 11.1, +22.4, 64.8,+10.4, +6.0,ECU. ,1152 6747,+20.3,1677,100, 90, 00, 11.0, +23.5, 63.9,+10.9, +6.0,ECU. ,1096 6872,+20.5,1689,100, 90, 00, 11.0, +25.6, 65.0,+11.6, +6.2,ECU. ,1146 7002,+20.5,1677,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +26.8, 65.1,+12.1, +6.5,ECU. ,1262 7107,+20.5,1689,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +26.9, 66.0,+12.5, +6.5,ECU. ,1184 7230,+20.5,1742,100, 90, 00, 11.1, +28.9, 66.2,+13.5, +6.5,ECU. ,1116 7326,+20.5,1718,100, 90, 00, 11.1, +29.1, 66.0,+14.0, +6.2,ECU. ,1179 7423,+20.5,1694,100,100, 00, 11.1, +28.9, 66.0,+15.0, +5.9,ECU. ,1116 7507,+20.5,1700,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +29.7, 63.4,+15.4, +5.5,ECU. ,1173 7610,+20.5,1700,100,100, 00, 11.2, +30.8, 64.2,+15.5, +5.5,ECU. ,1126 7698,+20.5,1718,100, 90, 00, 11.5, +30.8, 63.8,+15.8, +5.5,ECU. ,1146 7698,+20.3, 396, 58, 90, 00, 11.5, +35.1, 17.0,+15.4, +5.5,ECU. , 245 7017,+19.3, 140, 0, 00, 00, 12.1, +38.8, 8.7,ECU. ,+14.0,ECU. , 88 6548,+16.9, 115, 0, 00, 00, 13.1, +28.7, 7.7,ECU. ,+14.0,ECU. , 95 5952,+14.0, 914, 96, 10, 00, 12.5, +29.3, 38.9, +9.9,+14.0,ECU. , 720 5941,+10.6,1474,100, 10, 00, 11.9, +17.4, 61.7,+10.0,+14.0,ECU. ,1086 6049, +9.2,1602,100, 30, 00, 11.9, +15.3, 63.5,+10.4, +8.0,ECU. ,1106 6116, +9.9,1562,100, 60, 00, 10.8, +17.3, 59.4,+10.9, +6.0,ECU. , 972 6184,+12.6,1577,100, 80, 00, 10.8, +19.5, 60.0,+10.5, +6.0,ECU. ,1063 6242,+15.7,1577,100, 90, 00, 11.0, +20.4, 60.6, +8.6, +6.0,ECU. ,1024 6313,+18.4,1623,100, 90, 00, 11.0, +21.6, 62.4, +9.0, +6.0,ECU. ,1008 6397,+20.1,1618,100, 90, 00, 11.0, +21.5, 61.6, +9.4, +6.0,ECU. ,1152 6485,+20.8,1655,100, 90, 00, 11.1, +22.4, 63.3, +9.7, +6.0,ECU. ,1116 6548,+21.0,1661,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +22.5, 63.7,+10.0, +6.0,ECU. ,1046 6613,+21.0,1694,100, 90, 00, 11.1, +23.3, 64.2,+10.3, +6.0,ECU. ,1190 6653,+21.0,1689,100, 90, 00, 11.1, +23.6, 64.8,+10.5, +6.0,ECU. ,1072 6720,+21.3,1672,100, 90, 00, 11.0, +24.5, 64.1,+10.7, +6.0,ECU. ,1111 6802,+21.3,1683,100, 90, 00, 11.0, +24.4, 65.0,+11.1, +6.1,ECU. ,1086 6872,+21.3,1683,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +25.8, 65.0,+11.2, +6.1,ECU. ,1201 6930,+21.3,1700,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +26.9, 65.4,+11.6, +6.3,ECU. ,1168 6958,+21.0,1677,100,100, 00, 11.1, +27.9, 64.2,+13.8, +6.4,ECU. ,1126 7047,+21.0,1677,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +28.0, 65.8,+12.2, +6.5,ECU. ,1184 7107,+21.0,1718,100,100, 00, 11.1, +28.8, 66.1,+14.1, +6.5,ECU. ,1162
Trending Topics
Wow, that's a lot of timing there. That's just what the ECU is trying to do though, right? The Utec is keeping timing backed off, except when you shift, right? I can't believe how much timing the ECU is trying to push.
yes, my timing map isn't calling for anywhere near that timing. it's the base map from long ago, where i just pulled timing, at 7k, i'm calling for 18 degrees max.
I can attribute it to one of two things, and i'm gonna do one and see today. The other is yes, i do have the injen intake.
edit: here's a run from this morning, 4th gear. not quite as high on the revs though.
I can attribute it to one of two things, and i'm gonna do one and see today. The other is yes, i do have the injen intake.
edit: here's a run from this morning, 4th gear. not quite as high on the revs though.
Code:
3401, +4.3, 772,100, 10, 00, 11.5, +9.2, 29.0,ECU. , +6.0,ECU. , 498 3483, +7.0, 886,100, 10, 00, 11.1, +7.5, 32.8,ECU. , +6.0,ECU. , 606 3561, +9.9, 965,100, 20, 00, 10.9, +7.5, 35.8,ECU. , +6.0,ECU. , 961 3667,+12.8, 957,100, 30, 00, 11.5, +7.5, 35.6, +6.4, +6.0,ECU. , 830 3749,+16.0, 967,100, 30, 00, 11.5, +8.5, 35.1, +6.6, +6.0,ECU. ,1063 3880,+18.4,1022,100, 30, 00, 11.0, +8.6, 42.4, +7.3, +4.5,ECU. , 559 3982,+20.1,1061,100, 40, 00, 10.9, +8.7, 44.4, +6.1, +3.6,ECU. , 568 4060,+21.0,1077,100, 40, 00, 10.8, +8.5, 43.6, +6.4, +0.6,ECU. , 681 4166,+21.3,1063,100, 40, 00, 10.8, +10.8, 40.9, +6.8, -1.8,ECU. , 853 4257,+21.3,1096,100, 40, 00, 11.6, +11.8, 41.5, +7.2, -5.0,ECU. , 886 4368,+21.0,1101,100, 40, 00, 11.8, +12.8, 41.9, +7.0, -5.0,ECU. , 728 4432,+21.0,1193,100, 50, 00, 11.8, +13.0, 44.2, +5.3, -5.0,ECU. , 936 4547,+21.0,1196,100, 50, 00, 12.3, +13.0, 46.1, +5.0, -5.6,ECU. , 932 4655,+21.0,1207,100, 50, 00, 12.3, +13.0, 45.9, +5.1, -6.8,ECU. , 841 4734,+21.3,1278,100, 50, 00, 11.7, +14.2, 46.3, +5.1, -8.0,ECU. , 865 4837,+21.5,1256,100, 50, 00, 11.7, +13.1, 46.7, +5.2, -7.6,ECU. , 996 4909,+21.5,1312,100, 60, 00, 11.6, +13.2, 47.8, +5.3, -7.4,ECU. , 836 4997,+21.5,1326,100, 60, 00, 11.6, +12.0, 49.0, +5.4, -7.0,ECU. , 865 5089,+21.3,1358,100, 60, 00, 11.5, +12.1, 50.5, +5.7, -7.0,ECU. ,1082 5175,+21.3,1412,100, 60, 00, 11.4, +12.3, 49.6, +5.9, -7.0,ECU. , 778 5265,+21.3,1388,100, 70, 00, 11.4, +13.3, 50.7, +5.8, -7.0,ECU. , 988 5341,+21.3,1408,100, 70, 00, 11.6, +13.2, 51.3, +5.9, -7.0,ECU. , 912 5428,+21.5,1445,100, 70, 00, 11.5, +13.3, 55.0, +5.9, -7.0,ECU. , 968 5500,+21.5,1457,100, 70, 00, 11.1, +13.3, 55.0, +6.0, -7.0,ECU. ,1046 5592,+21.5,1529,100, 70, 00, 11.1, +13.4, 56.2, +6.8, -7.0,ECU. ,1126 5678,+21.5,1506,100, 80, 00, 11.3, +14.4, 57.1, +7.2, -7.0,ECU. , 880 5767,+21.5,1483,100, 80, 00, 11.2, +14.5, 57.6, +7.8, -7.0,ECU. ,1000 5827,+21.3,1501,100, 80, 00, 11.3, +15.5, 58.1, +8.2, -7.0,ECU. ,1121 5910,+21.3,1519,100, 80, 00, 11.4, +16.0, 57.3, +8.9, -7.0,ECU. ,1131 6016,+21.3,1538,100, 80, 00, 11.4, +17.0, 59.1, +9.4, -7.0,ECU. ,1146 6060,+21.0,1543,100, 80, 00, 11.2, +17.0, 59.7, +9.7, -7.0,ECU. , 980 6150,+21.0,1519,100, 80, 00, 11.2, +18.1, 58.5,+10.3, -7.0,ECU. ,1157 6230,+20.8,1602,100, 80, 00, 11.1, +19.6, 60.3,+11.0, -7.0,ECU. ,1077 6325,+20.8,1612,100, 80, 00, 11.4, +19.3, 60.7,+11.4, -7.0,ECU. ,1101 6349,+20.5,1618,100, 90, 00, 11.4, +20.6, 61.4, +9.0, -7.0,ECU. ,1106 6435,+20.5,1661,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +20.5, 63.5, +9.6, -7.0,ECU. ,1237 6510,+20.5,1639,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +21.8, 63.8,+10.0, -7.0,ECU. ,1116 6548,+20.8,1706,100, 90, 00, 11.1, +21.6, 64.0,+10.3, -7.0,ECU. ,1152 6653,+20.8,1694,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +22.4, 63.5,+10.5, -7.0,ECU. ,1184 6693,+21.0,1689,100, 90, 00, 11.3, +23.4, 64.9,+10.7, -7.0,ECU. ,1126 6761,+21.3,1677,100, 90, 00, 11.3, +23.5, 64.3,+10.9, -7.0,ECU. ,1256 6830,+21.3,1694,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +24.6, 65.8,+11.2, -6.9,ECU. ,1213 6872,+21.3,1700,100, 90, 00, 11.3, +24.7, 65.5,+11.3, -6.8,ECU. ,1207 6930,+21.3,1666,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +24.7, 65.4,+11.7, -6.7,ECU. ,1225 6988,+21.3,1712,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +25.7, 65.7,+11.9, -6.5,ECU. ,1288 7032,+21.3,1700,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +25.8, 65.1,+12.2, -6.5,ECU. ,1237 7092,+21.3,1700,100, 90, 00, 11.2, +26.9, 66.2,+12.5, -6.5,ECU. ,1282 7153,+21.3,1730,100,100, 00, 11.0, +26.6, 66.7,+14.3, -6.5,ECU. ,1168 7230,+21.3,1724,100,100, 00, 11.1, +26.8, 66.7,+14.4, -6.5,ECU. ,1237 7278,+21.3,1742,100,100, 00, 11.1, +26.8, 66.9,+14.5, -6.6,ECU. ,1207 7309,+21.0,1718,100,100, 00, 11.3, +26.8, 66.2,+14.6, -6.6,ECU. ,1173 7326,+21.0,1724,100,100, 00, 11.1, +26.7, 66.1,+14.8, -6.9,ECU. ,1162 7407,+21.0,1712,100,100, 00, 11.1, +27.8, 66.4,+14.9, -7.1,ECU. ,1262 7473,+21.0,1736,100,100, 00, 11.1, +28.0, 65.9,+14.9, -7.2,ECU. ,1315
Last edited by WarmPepsi; Apr 9, 2006 at 05:42 AM.
Originally Posted by CBRD
if you have an intake that my attribute.
the stock ecu will do that sometimes, but you look like you could be running more timing regardless up top.
cb
the stock ecu will do that sometimes, but you look like you could be running more timing regardless up top.
cb
Today i unplugged the bat, let it sit all day, to exit anything the ecu learned, and i'll do it again, i dunno, just i know thats a lot of timing, etc.
Does plug gap/selection make any call in what the ecu is doing? i mean, obviously the ecu says "lets go buddy, and throws in the timing" but i just need to lasso it back a little
Sorry guys I have been away for a bit. First off thanks for the helpful replies. I have one additional question. Jack you said that you don't have to honor the timing but you should not stray too far. How far is too far?
Sorry if the question seems elementary. Just learning the ropes.
Thanks,
Technov
Sorry if the question seems elementary. Just learning the ropes.
Thanks,
Technov
I usually build a skeleton map with stock ECU timing, then stray from it a little at a time.. Unfortunately EVERY car is different, simple things such as the condition of your coils can have a significant impact on your timing too.. But Generally I start with conservative timing, 17 degrees towards redline, about 4-5 degrees at peak torque, and a bit higer as the boost ramps before hitting peak boost.. THen you can add timing as you do your runs.. I have had cars that took 27 degrees of timing, and other cars that would barely take 19 degrees at redline.. They all depend alot on the fuel, condition, etc..
But the trick is to get the car nice and rich, then get to the boost levels you want, then get your AFR"s where you want them, then hit your timing last.. Now here's a bit of interesting trivia, as you increase your timing, your AFR's will start getting leaner, so you'll have to add a bit of fuel also as your doing this last step. You should be watchin AFR's and EGT's (do a search to find a good level for EGT's.. Generally you want to keep them as low as possible for street driving, you can let it get higher for short burst driving (drag racing), but if you road race, you have to give up some power for reliability.
But the trick is to get the car nice and rich, then get to the boost levels you want, then get your AFR"s where you want them, then hit your timing last.. Now here's a bit of interesting trivia, as you increase your timing, your AFR's will start getting leaner, so you'll have to add a bit of fuel also as your doing this last step. You should be watchin AFR's and EGT's (do a search to find a good level for EGT's.. Generally you want to keep them as low as possible for street driving, you can let it get higher for short burst driving (drag racing), but if you road race, you have to give up some power for reliability.
Excellent information Jack. That was exactly what I was looking for.
BTW, what AFR would you call rich? 11.0? Higher, lower? Also, what boost level do you find is optimal for the stock turbo? I have ARP headstuds fyi.
Thanks,
Technov
BTW, what AFR would you call rich? 11.0? Higher, lower? Also, what boost level do you find is optimal for the stock turbo? I have ARP headstuds fyi.
Thanks,
Technov