The only thing that really worries me about the AP is that on cobb's offical forum they are saying they will only spend "extra" reasources developing the AP for the evo. I looks like they aren't going to actually dive into the evo market more just play around with it.

If thats going to be their attitude I think i'm better off getting tuned with a few custom maps and carrying a cheap laptop :P

 

WOW, it only takes about 10 seconds, if that, to load a map with ECUFlash. In fact to me it sounds like the 'only' advantage to using the Cobb AP is that you don't need a laptop. But honestly I think thats a disadvantage because with a laptop and the tatrix cable in the car you can use one of two awesome datalogging programs, either EVOScan which is only $25 or MItsulogger which is FREE!

THe thing that really seems odd with the Cobb AP is that you have to first pay for a base map, which I'm sure costs more then any of the $50.00 email ECUFlashes available from vendors currently and then its only good for a specific set of mods. Then on top of that you have to go to a "Pro Tuner" and pay even more money to get a really good tune. I still don't see any advantage to using this tool, unless your a Pro Tuner then it would make sense to push this product because you can charge an arm and a leg for tunes. Kind of like ECUTek flashes.

 

There you guys go again spewing misinformation without any research involved. Go to the Cobb website and read the manuals for the AP. They are pertinent to the Subbies because the EVO literature has not been published, but ours will be very similar. Cobb has done an outstanding job with manuals and literature for the AP including the AccessECU Software & Tuning Guides (incredible source of info!!!) and a worksheet in Excel format to help you figure out the pulse width for injectors, duty cycles, etc, etc, etc. These guys do way more for helping the DIY tuner than anyone else in the market, period.

As far as paying for their base maps...they're free! All you have to do is just download them from their website. Trust me guys, just do some research and some reading and you can get all the info without having to speculate. This product will do just about anything you want...and yes it includes datalogging and you will have th ability to plug in a wideband into the AP. Sure, it's expensive...but some of us will pay the price for such a great product. This thing really is great!

 

I think that Cobb is also looking towards people to adopt the tool and probably a few tuners doing their own maps and distributing them that way also.

Although I don't always agree with ImYurTurboLuva, I do think that the reason we get the impression their not taking his seriously is that they haven't updated their content on the website.

The jury is still out for me and this tool. Besides the ability to use a handheld device, I'm concerned that it may be limited on what you can do with it. I'm sure that will change, I'd like to get one to work with and see for myself, but I just can't justify what they want for it to "play with" just to get tossed into my "box of parts" that I have tested and decided not to use.

We'll see what happens. They need to get these out to people who can talk about it and get the hype going and the facts out there. But it seems like whatever testing their doing is being done in secrecy so people are speculating on it.

The features sound really interesting, however when I attempted to contact them about evaluating a unit, or even for information, I was never replied to.

What I do like is the live tuning capabilities, and obviously my original concerns are unfounded if what one of the earlier posters reply was accurate. Live tuning is something we're really not doing yet simply because it takes time to figure out and we (the open source community) don't have a staff on payroll.

 

I've tuned a few Cobb ST WRX guys on the dyno. WAY too many hoops to jump through with the old software with flashing, marrying, waiting until eternity, etc.

Opensource >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cobb AP

 

I can't say I disagree with you, but I do really like the appeal of its hardware if its really able to be used in a flexible manner..

Of course, in reality I've already designed hardware capable of doing this, its just that I really like what the press releases and others have said about it.

I'm hoping they offer tools for the tuner to create maps for the device, that can be loaded onto the device for end-users.. It will simplify the through the mail / Through the E-mail reflashing for many.. I think thats the "pro tuner" product or something like that Correct?

 

No Jack, we don't always agree on everything, but there are always different methodologies of tuning (I like pre-turbo MAFs and you like post) and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Now, the content hasn't been updated due to the fact that there is no definative release of said product. The AP will be good for some while ECUflash is best for others. Me? I'm on the fence, so I will wait until its final release and see what goes on with the AP. One thing you and I agree on is the ability to tune a car and when inspected, will pass the OBD portion...this for me is unquestionable. I'm not trying to sound like a AP fanboy, but I can , with almost certainty, expect it to be a very good product with real-time tuning capabilities. Go ahead, call Cobb and let us know what's in the mix. Supposedly there are going to be some really cool features released soon.

I thought you were moving to Texas, what gives? You and I could have hashed this one out together!

 

well i know that the maps from cobb on the subbies are really conservative thus leading to bad gas milage, so would the evo be like that too?

 

I would like to see the logging capabilities of the unit, even though if I remember correct it will be another few hundered dollars for the street tuner. So when it's all said in done it will cost about 1k to get the ball rolling with the AP.

Im with Jack and Imyourturbowhatever on this. I t has certainly peaked my intrest, but spending 1k on a product that can be done for $94 isn't really cost effective. For now Ill stick with ECUflash and the Mitsulogger (Evoscan has been deleted).

 

Agreed.. I will be calling them next week to see if I can get some info, I think once they realize who I am, they may actually be able to get me some more info. I actually like the whole idea of this device.. What I don't like about it is having the Marry the device to a specific ECU, though I can definitely understand why it would be done. What appeals to me is the live tuning, that is something not really done yet with the evo (The reality is I have been playing with getting data uploaded into the ECU to replace the tables in ram and running off those, but my results have been limited since the code to do that isn't really available yet)

Will this be a better tool.. Well, over time I think it will serve a specific purpose and be very good at it.. Will it replace ECUFlash and a Laptop, nope.. But it does bridge the gap a little bit by offering a tool for the masses, and thats a really big deal.

BTW My job description changed so I ended up buying a house here on LI.. So my Texas move got cancelled.

 

Jack...if you have something that works for you, use it! The real reason I like the features of the AP is due to the multiple maps that can be switched on-the-fly. For instance, I can cruise down the road in "economy" and if another cars needs a quick azz beating, switch to your "meth" map and give him said beating...conversly, you can run any number of maps depending on what race gas octane you are running at the moment.

As far as the StreetTune and ProTune software differentiation is concerned, StreetTune allows you to only tune your vehicle, whereas ProTune can tune all AP equipped vehicles. The problem with this is...guess who gets ProTune? A liscensed Cobb dealer!

Also Cobb is very supportive of sharing maps on their forums or any other means available. If you go to the Subby sites, they love the AP. I don't know, man. Again, I'm on the fence...tune with your laptop (which mine is a huge 17" bulky entertainment center) and save the tune(s) on the AP, put the laptop back in the house where it is safe, and flash the ECU on-the-fly (multiple maps if you want) with the AP. I just wish we had one to play with.

 

Unless the Cobb alters closed loop operation, I doubt you'll see worse gas mileage unless you have a lead foot..

 

This is not necessarily a fault with Cobb's tuning but rather the fact that the MAF calculation limit is not adjustable for the 2002-2005 Subbys. The primary fuel tables have to be skewed to compensate for this. Thanks goodness this isn't the case for the Evo!!!!

 

Here is a litte more info regarding the features of the StreetTuner software for the AP...
http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/D...id=2916&v=more

And there is the user gude as well...this is invaluable info for newie tuners. Remember that this guide is for the Subbys, but there is a lot of useful info in regards to tuning in general. I suspect that Cobb is developing a guide for the Evo AP as well. This is a must read!

http://www.accessecu.com/support/st-dbw-userguide.pdf

 

I am glad to see a good discussion going on about this. I was worried I was going to come back over the weekend and see a bunch of people just saying ECUFlash is better.

While I think ECUFlash has done amazing things for the EVO community and it is good to see so many people starting to get interested in tuning(the most important part of performance IMO) I still think there is room for improvement and a niche that both devices will appeal to different people.

Couple things I would like to clear up in the thread. All Cobb made maps are FREE!!! They tend to make makes for the popular mods. Like on the subaru the make maps that include upgraded turbo and injectors(specific models required). Also base maps are included on the device so you will not need to purchase anything else if you just want a standard flash.

Also in the first post it says flashing time is 10x faster with the new port. That means on the subaru if it used to take 10 min to flash now it will take 1. Now the subaru ECU from my knowledge is a little more complex then the EVO so I would expect flash time to be even faster.

As well as the fact I know Cobb is not just dipping into this. They have already started development on a whole line of parts for the evo. Exhausts, Intakes, Intercooler piping, mini batteries, etc... They have already spent so much time and money on development for the EVO AP and other things that to not be fully committed to the project would not be smart at all.

A couple reasons this piece might appeal to some people.
1. Very easy to use. You do not need to know anything about tuning to use this device and to know it works. Just plug it in hit a couple buttons and go.

2. No laptop required. I think almost all of us have been there. You have your laptop your tuning and you run out of batteries or can't see the screen with the glare from the sun or forget the power inverter. I have done I think all of those things. Just trying to switch a map. The AP will use the power from your car to flash the vehicle so you do not have to worry about not being able to flash the car.

3. Read/ Clear Trouble codes.

4. Cool hand held device to pimp the ladies

5. If you have access to a load based dyno live tuning is awesome. If you ever get a chance to use it do because you will fall in love just like I did.

There are many more reasons I can think of but this post is getting a little long and I have a ton of work to do before SEMA. I might just dig up a old thread that I gave a good long list of the reasons and post it up if I find time.

Please continue the discussion. If you have any specic questions on it please feel free to post, call, aim or email me and I will answer them as quick as I can. I have been very interested in the EVO AP project so the questions you have I most likely already asked the main EVO AP engineer.