EvoTech

iTrader: (25)

what octane fuel is this. The timing map does not look at all aggresive to me. I have seen many Evo's run as much as 27 degrees by 7800. Not that I would recommend that though.

DCsleeper

iTrader: (11)

This is on 93 octane....I know that I can push the timing more since basically the timing in this run is what the stock ecu wants to run.....I was planning on scaling the entire curve .5 psi at a time till I see the stock ecu start to really dump timing ....would this be the next step in making a powerful tune???

I think that the last map I posted will be my everyday driving tune....anything else I do will be for all out runs...

is there a way to tell without a dyno when I have exceeded MBT??? I am assuming that ~ 22psi is the ideal target psi and to build timing around that ...is this a correct assumption?

EvoTech

iTrader: (25)

I think that 22 PSI peak is a good target. What is MBT?

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

I don't know if you found your "cut" issue, but its likely the MAF or Boost cut in the UTEC configuration, If its not that, then the car is misfiring badly.

The Tuner is always about 1 line behind the UTEC in AFR..

And I am at this moment, working on a version of mitsulogger that logs either the Tuner/Tunerpro, or Utec, or Both with the ECU's readings. Nothing special about that except the logs are synchronized, and the application will import AFR from the Tuner/TunerPro (and the UTEC's last column if it has AFR) into the Mitsulogger logs. I'm trying to decide if I want to merge all of the data with the Mitsulogger data in one log file, but the app is capable of doing both.

Not to mention the logger for the UTEC/Tuner will be released as a standalone tool for those who don't need the Mitsulogger features.

I second the notion that its probably a good idea to invest in the tactrix cable, The ability to use the ECU to baseline a tune, and then build tunes on top of it with the UTEC is just fantastic.

DCsleeper

iTrader: (11)

Jack,

Sounds interesting....I have yet to conclusively determine the cause of the cut but right now i am just chaulking it up to a boost spike that wasn't logged and exceeded the 25psi boost limit set in the UTEC. I will look into investing in the cable you guys are talking about....looks like I have some reading to do on the value of the additional data

Since I consider you the guru of UTEC tuning....what would you do next to the map I posted to increase power?

EvoTech,

MBT 'maximum best timing' from my understanding the point at which timing does not improve power but hampers it....

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Check the MAF Cut setting also, I think its set pretty conservatively, I recall hitting it on my car every so often.

DCsleeper

iTrader: (11)

Jack,

Thanks ....but the setting is set at 1800hz...unless the limit is a curve which noone have been able to answer me on that one..I was no where near it

EvoTech

iTrader: (25)

OK that is an anaconym that I have not heard yet. some of the fastest Evos that I have seen have run a lot (27 degrees or so) of timing. So I think that you are no where neer MBT. Of course cylinder pressure is going to be huge at that point. One of my friends lifted a head running that much timing. Another member Ultimate CC runs a lot of timing, meth and N20. He beats the hell out of the car, drag races all the time and has never had a problem. I prefer a little less timing and some piece of mind.

Mad_SB

iTrader: (8)

MBT is mean best torque, i believe. It is the balance point between rich best torque and lean best torque.

Just be carefull with running the utec timing map. lots of timing and an improperly setup knock sensor filter = bang.

One thing I never did was fine tune the knock detection by rpm range. I think you can do it in a similar way that you do for the knocklite, you can get the docs from txs website.

Mad_SB

iTrader: (8)

Ohh,

You may want to look around for a desktop dyno type application, datalog labs has one built in, but you may need to do a little fideling to get the logs into it. Jack knows way more about that than i do.

I think you can get a time limited demo from the datalog labs website.

On a load bearing dyno you will see torque/power drop off as you cross over the sweet spot for timing, though it would be hard to accurate enough data with a software dyno to find that point.

The stock ecu is very conservative in the knock detection department, If I had not sold my utec, I would probably be considering re-installing it just to be able to tune without having to fight the factory knock sensor (now that I have learned a lot more about proper tuning), of course the caviate is that you have the have the knock filters setup properly.

DCsleeper

iTrader: (11)

Mad,

I have never messed with the knock filter settings on the UTEC. I haven't heard this really mentioned much on the forum. Aren't the turboxs settings adequate?

Also, how much of a difference is there between the turboxs knock filter settings and the factory ones? Basically, does a knock count on the UTEC = a knock count on the factory settings?

Always learning....and regarding the initial topic of this post I am 99% sure that I hit my 25psi boost cut when the weather got really cold. Right now I am in the process of developing a map for cold days <50 degrees and hot days >50. I have noticed that the difference between a 30 degree day and 60 is about 4 points (duty cycle) on my boost map to maintain the same boost level.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

The knock settings for the UTEC, TUner Pro, and Knock light, pretty much work the same way and are set up similarly. They are "pretty close" from the factory with the UTEC, but you will find some discrepency where you might want to make adjustments to be closer to the stock ECU.

They both function differently, the ECU uses a more complex detection method which uses different frequency filters and thresholds, and the UTEC uses a noise threshold and sigma count over several different RPM steps to determine it. (basically noise above background noise)

DCsleeper

iTrader: (11)

thanks for the explination Jack...but I guess what I am really getting at is if it is safe to tune using the UTEC knock thresholds as it comes from turboxs. Basically, I tune to never get any knock counts using those settings...but in some cases as above I hit my boost limit before ever getting a knock count.....is that strange?

Typically I tune to the afr I want 11.2-11.5 from peak torque on...and then start increaseing the timing till I see the stock ECU taking a big timing dump. What my timing map usually ends up looking like is an offset of the stock timing...

What I have been having issues with but am getting in control is the variance in boost related to temp changes....crazy weather here in dc lately with one day being 70 and the next 30...I have found with changes like that that my boost map changes ~ 4 points using open boost control and the gm solenoid. Does that sound normal to you?

Mad_SB

iTrader: (8)

Sounds like you are on the right track, when I had my UTEC, I never messed with the settings on knock sensor setup, it must have worked O.K. cause I ran on a bad injector for more than a year without any major damage, but a lot of knock counts.

I only came across the info on tuning the sensor settings when reading about the txs knock lite.

I think the factory settings should be good, only place I would worry is up to around 3500 rpm, cause I have seens the stock ecu throw knock counts with VERY low knock voltages bellow 3500 rpm.

If you can, buy some dyno time man and work on the tune on the dyno then you don't have to guess about how nuch timing is too much and what affect afr has on knock and power output.

I personally think targetting 11:1 or so on the street is fine, but you really won't know how much you can gain (or not gain) by pulling more fuel than you already have unless you do it on the dyno, you may find you get better results by richening it up around peak torque and adding a degree or so of timing, just depends on what your car likes.

Thing is, without logging the ecu's knock sum, it may be hard to tell what it is doing by looking at the timing it is running, cause you don't have the stock rom and load values to compair against.

EvoTech

iTrader: (25)

I did the same thing for years. I would freak out if I saw 1 count of knock and spend a lot of time tuning it away. I am learning that a few counts of knock is inevitable and is not really pre-ignition. A real pre-detonation event will be picked up much louder and the counts will me much higher.