what is optimal timing?
can I just advance timing until i see no knock??
i am injecting water/meth and i am able to advance upto 19-20's without knock.
i think i can advance more timing, like upto 23-24 at the redline.

but i am wondering/questioning...there should be optimal timing, just advancing timing till i don't see knock isn't the answer.

any suggestions???

 

wow! stop now. go back to stock and get help.

 

^+1

 

what do you mean???

 

Dude, you're gonna mess your **** up...Messing with the ECU isn't exactly the best thing to do if you don't know what you're doing.

 

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ming+injection

i recently read the above thread and some guys are running 20+ timing with injection.
i am using 50/50 meth/water, set boost at 1.7-1.8 bar, still tapers down to 1.4-5bar at redline, 2byte/ecu load in 280-290's peak, drops to around 240-260's.
haven't touched the AFR yet, but rich as hell, 13.0 during peak torque and drops to 10.3 at redline.

my question is this....

i see my timing upto 20's at redline without any knocks. progressively advancing without any retardation.
so, should I continue to advance timing???
if you read 'how to tune evo' in ECU flash forum, nj1266 mentioned to tune timing first before fuel table. b/c if you change timing, then it will change afr(not a exact quote but that's what nj1266 is suggesting...)

so going back to my question... is there optimal timing?? or can i still advance it??

 

he basically want to know the ceiling for ignition timing on meth. I know pump gas guys can run anywhere from 19-22 degrees max. What are the race gas/meth guys running?

I assume he doesnt want to wait to see knock ( or unnecessarly high cylinder pressures) to know where to start backing timing down.

So what is the general point of diminishing returns (for a given mod level)?

 

on pump gas, my timings were high 10's, like 18's, sometimes 19 with more taper in the boost(less load...).

my car is evo8 with 272/272 cams, just in case, don't wanna freak out evo9 guys with timing in 20's...

i do not want to advance till i see knock. i believe there's got to be ideal timing for best power, not just advance timing and say 'i am running 2x timing without no knock'

 

Sorry man, but that's the best way to tune. Advance until you see knock and then back off by a couple of degrees. If you can get some dyno time, you could tune for minimum best torque, but you'll likely encounter knock before you get to that point.

To answer your question, there is no definite timing value for you to tune to. Your mods are different, your fuel and fuel mixture are different, your climate is different ... EVERYTHING affects how much timing you can run.

If you want to decide on a set timing value to plug in, go for it. But, chances are high that you will be leaving power on the table if you don't find the limit. Bottom line, take the time, put forth the effort and tune the car correctly. There is no magic number.

 

wow trying to tune with meth without using a dyno doesn't seem like a good idea.
I would just be overly conservative, increas timing on a dyno until you reach peak torque then knock a couple down to be conservative.

 

your not never smart.....why would he need a dyno if he can Datalog???

 

to get an accurate torque/hp.

 

most ''Dynos'' are not accurate

 

Because you need to know your torque when you make timing adjustments. What's good about tuning till you see knock if you went over MBT? You'll run more timing and make less tq.


that's awesome!

 

MP, I'm not sure he would even reach MBT on pump with a meth/water mix. I think it's safe for him to street tune and just back off when he finds a little knock. Of course, he needs to take it slow.