i am datalogging with both Evoscan and ECU plus. ECU plus has own dyno feature and it's quite consistance with mod and changes in ecu flash.
it even has own map tracer!! loads are calculated loads but...at least you have an idea where to look for on load column.

can't get above 2 degrees of timing during peak torque which is around 4.4K.
but higher rpm, my timings are in 19-20's.

i guess i will advance more timing now...
one degree at a time...

 

Follow NJ's guide and you'll be fine

 

This doesn't sound right at all ... That seems really low for timing at peak on meth. Also, unless you've changed the turbo to something quite large, peak torque should be around 3500 or less.

Is there some extra info you haven't mentioned?

 

On a proper dyno (like a dynodynamics) you can see the power, torque, boost, afr all in real time so if anything is going wrong you can abort instantly rather than waiting till you have a chance to look at your laptop.

Plus, road tuning is not the safest thing in the world.

Not saying you cannot get a good tune using datalogs and road tuning, but it is much quicker and safer to use a good dyno.

 

Yeah, that is true...

By the way i run around 2* at peak torque as well. That's on E85 at 28psi... My engine does not like any more than that.. And then it goes up to 21-22 by redline.
Some people get away with 8*, i never could come even close to that, wether on reg gas or E85. I write it off on engines' differences.

 

evo8 with evo9 turbo, and invidia o2 housing, and 272/272 cams.
i am advancing more timing around peak torque RPM region.
we will see how it goes.

btw, i disabled lean spool up, i was in lik high 13's, and 14's during spool up, though lean condition was the cause for the knock around spool up/torque area.

 

Just a note ... different tuners do things differently. I tune boost first, then fuel then timing. This allows me to nail down the load range I'm tuning first. Then, I set the fuel curve exactly how I like it. Then I increase timing advance for power.

The cams might be why you can run so little advance at peak torque, but you should still spool quicker than 4400. Given, I drive a IX, but I can hit 24 psi in 4th at 3100 RPM. Without MIVEC, you should be there @ 3800 at the latest ... especially with the AFRs you should be running with meth. And, honestly, thats a very generous allowance for spool time.

Have you checked for boost leaks?

 

There is absolutely no such thing as optimal timing in the sense that you are depicting. Dynamic variables effect this type of theory.
Increasing timing isn't always the answer nor is decreasing the lead. It will depend on MANY variables. Please do not take offense to this but if you are asking this question in this manner, my suggestion would be to consult with an educated tuner near you.
Just my two cents.

 

I'm talking about. Get you AFR's in check before you mess with anything else. "13.0 during peak torque" is not "rich as hell" And what he said^^

 

right, i am happy with 13's during peak torque, maybe i can lean out just a little bit more but...10.3 at redline with 50meth/50water, i think it's really rich.

 

Spool up at ~13:1 and get to 12.5:1 at peak torque. Hold that 12.5:1 till about 5500 then taper down to 12.2:1 at 7000. THEN set your timing.

Don't go leaner than 13:1 on meth. Meth will actually lower your stoichiometric ratio, so you need to think in lambda here. .87 lambda (your ideal target) is 12.8 for gasoline and 5.6 for Methanol.

If you are adding, say, 10% meth to your fuel mixture (just an estimate), your target would ideally be 12.07:1. Just something to consider ...

I'm not sure how water comes in to play here though since hydrogen has a very high stoichiometric ratio ...

 

13. at "peak torque" or in your case 1.7-1.8 bar is not AT ALL safe by any means. Your fuel curve , notice I didn't say line, should show similarities to your VE curve.
Again good luck but IMHO you are headed for a meltdown sooner than later.

 

You misunderstood what I said. The reason I start with timing is because of 91 octane gas. On 91 octane gas the Evo knocks with factory timing. So I start with timing to eliminate knock. If I start with increasing the boost and leaning the AFR, then the car would knock when setting these two parameters. Why put so much stress on the engine? Start with a conservative timing map.

Since you are running meth+water, then you do not have that problem. So set your timing CONSERVATIVELY first. The key word is CONSERVATIVE. That will give you room to lean out the AFR and up the boost w/o knocking.

Simply advancing the timing is NOT the way to go. You have three parameters to keep in mind when tuning an Evo, boost, timing and AFR. When tuning one parameter, you MUST keep in mind the other two.

So here is what you should do:

1. Set timing to a conservative number. I would say 15-16 by redline and work back from there.
2. Set the target boost. I have no idea what boost you can run with meth.
3. Set the AFR after you set the boost. Follow the numbers that Touring Bubble suggested.
4. Go back and see how much timing advance you can get away with w/o knock.

You started with number 4 and skipped 1, 2, and 3.

 

..happy, but I'll bet your car isn't.

 

thanks NJ for the reply.
time to hit the road with laptop again..