Is this a good standalone, or not. I have been searching for information about this for a while and haven't read any good write up's on it except for the one Silver Surfer did a while back. I think that was the only write up on it in here. Do other people have these on their Evo's? Are these good for daily driver looking for 400-450whp. Why aren't people going after these and choosing an AEM EMS, it seems to be a lot easier to tune with the commander then having your laptop laying around. I heard the AME isn't very good for daily driver also, is this true? Due to the adjustments having to be made all the time. Am I wrong in saying this? Any help?

Silversurfer: How has it been working? Any problems, new discoveries. How do you like it. Do you have the commander to adjust values. Also does it control boost from the stock solenoid, or does it replace it?
Thanks,
EvoLunchbox


Ps. I moved this from the Turbo/drivetrain forum. It's the same

 

It has been working really well. The idle and drivability are much better than stock, and this is using the preprogrammed APEXI settings. I have only been adjusting the high load points for more power and knock resistance at high boost.

I do have the commander and it is an option that I have really come to appreciate. Not only can you make adjustments but it doubles as a very powerful gauge package with 15 second record and peak hold functions. You have full access to the ignition timing and fuel maps, as well as several other correction factors.
For extensive or fine tuning though you really need the APEXI or Datalogit laptop tuning interface, mainly for the logging function these options provide. I am still impatiently waiting for the data logit to come in.

Overall it's a great system, the only things that I would like to see changed/improved are:

It does control the stock boost solenoid but it is programmed to give you stock boost and the boost adjustment is locked out of the software. This is something that will hopefully change in the future.

It monitors and alerts you to engine knock, but there is no knock correction functions for automatically adding fuel or pull timing. When I have gotten some low quality gas and started to see knock I would either lower the boost or using the commander you can easily enter a temporary across the board timing or fuel correction.

As far as I know the dealer I am working with has the largest stock of these systems in the US right now, and he will not sell them until APEXI corrects the fan control issue. In case you missed it, APEXI set the fans so they only come on full speed at 100C (212F) and then they locked this control out on the software. The APEXI engineers insist that this setting is what they have been using in Japan for years and that they do not think it is a problem, so they did not want to change it. After several meetings and a bit of arm twisting I believe this issue will be corrected soon, but I think this is why you have not seen very many other people with these systems yet. FYI the stock ECU seems to kick the fans in high gear at around 85-90C.

The AEM does offer more power and flexibility, so obviously everybody thinks that is what they want. However all of that power and flexibility can be a double-edged sword.
I honestly do not believe that choosing an ECU is a black and white decision, each system seems to have certain pros and cons. The Power FC is far more powerful than the piggy back options, but it does not offer quite as much flexibility compared to the AEM.
Setting fuel and ignition maps for optimum power and knock suppression at a given moment is really not that difficult. It is getting all of the other environmental correction factors properly set that takes a great deal of time and resources. If you’re switching from MAF to speed density these correction factors become even more critical and difficult to set. When I say environmental conditions I am not just talking about weather, there are many variables that change from say driving in;
Bumper to bumper traffic, road course, elevation, etc.
So in that regard the AEM could be more difficult to work with, where as the APEXI system already has these corrections figured out and pre-set for you. Keep in mind that once you start making considerable changes like cams, injectors, turbo, etc, the stock correction variables will most likely not be appropriate for your setup anyway.

If your wanting to essentially double your engine power then you better be prepared to constantly monitor and adjust engine parameters on the fly. This is where the commander becomes a useful feature, unless you do not mind constantly driving around with a laptop.
I know most people do not want to hear this, but honestly for the average individual I do not feel that this much of a power increase would be practical for a daily driver, unless you have a lot of time and money to spend.

 

I would have to agree with SS. The Power FC is extremely powerful yet very user friendly. The AEM is more powerful but is MUCH harer to use and learn and certainly not something you can just plug in and go like the Power FC. Also having access and display through remote commander is very nice and no need to lug aorund laptop. I see little reason to go as far as an AEM setup when we have a Power FC system avaialble and even a D-Jetro model which allows you to get rid of your Karman Vortex sensor. The boost selenoid is available as an option but most people just use seperate boost controller like SBC-id or the like. It is faster to switch boost setting this way without having to exit the sensor display mode on the commander which is what you'll have it on when you're driving.

 

Hey Silver Surfer,
Tell ya tuner shop friend that what Apexi said about fan control setting is total BS. Tuners here have been complaining about the lock out for yrs. Especially by Evo tuners. 2 ways around the problem...change thermostat (mine's 65c now) made by Billion and also got variable fan controller (also by Billion) but they're are now available by Cusco, Greddy and HKS.
Anyways....
thought you might be interested in this:http://www.fc-datalogit.co.nz
here's Billion site(sorry in Japanese)
http://www.rakuten.co.jp/billion/414215/428786

go fast, have fun and cheers

 

This makes more sense than what we were told, I just do not understand why APEXI does not want to release this function? It is released in the RX7 version! Along with boost control adjustability with the stock selenoid!


Yes, we have considered this option, but it seems like such a waste when APEXI can correct the issue with a few key strokes!
This is why we have been holding out on these systems trying to apply some pressure on APEXI to do the right thing and release this function.
I kind of understand APEXI's position on this though, engines do operate more efficiently at higher temperature's and at speed you really don't need the fans. Part of the Power FC's user friendlyness is that they appear to have spent a great deal of development time setting up the maps/ECU engine control parameters. Parameters that they feel would not benifit from adjustment or the average tunner could not improve upon, they lock out. We would just rather give up some effeciency/mileage and let the water temps run 10-15C cooler in stop and go traffic. It just seems that the long term reliability would be better served this way.
Maybe we are wrong, a lot of new cars I have seen do run at 100C to help improve emmisions and mileage, but now I am starting to ramble... Bottom line is we want the option to run cooler and we don't want to have to rig the cooling system to do it. This is a plug and play system so.....
If we all fold and just start selling these units here, I think there is much less of a chance that they will make these changes, so...

But besides these intentional design issues, this is one solid ECU, right out of the box it works better than the stock ECU in every regard. The whole argument of "stand alones are cool but you can never get them to completely idle and drive as nice as the stock ECU" just do not apply here. And you don't need to be some master tunner to make fine adjustments for your particular car.

My tunner friend is the US distributer for this product. They have been waiting for a large order to come in for weeks now, believe me I will let you guys know as soon as I get my sweaty hands on one.

Thanks for the info ishi, I will be sure to pass it on .

Kind regards,

Eric

 

Are there any Power FC tuners in the Chicago area?? I was thinging about tossing my eManage for one but I haven't heard about any shops in the Chicago area that has experience with the PFC.

 

I'm in Detroit and can do it for you no problem. It's about a 3.5 hour drive but we do get quite a few Chicago people come in.

 

These are the Illinois emissions procedures:

Phase 1 from July to October 2002: 1996 and newer vehicles that pass a gas cap pressure test and an OBD test will pass the emissions test. An exhaust test will not be performed when the vehicle passes the OBD test. If the vehicle fails the OBD test, it will be given a second chance to pass by receiving an exhaust test. In this phase, vehicles that fail the emissions test can be repaired to pass either the OBD test or the exhaust test.

Phase 2 from October 2002 to January 2004: Owners of 1996 and newer vehicles will be able to decide whether to repair their vehicle if it fails an OBD test, or to be given a second-chance exhaust test. In this phase, vehicles that fail the emissions test can be repaired to pass either the OBD test or the exhaust test.

Phase 3 beginning January 1, 2004: The emissions test for most 1996 and newer vehicles will consist of a gas cap pressure test and an OBD test. In this phase, vehicles that fail the OBD test must be repaired to pass the OBD test.

If I use the PowerFC, I'm gonna get ****ed won't I

But I could get the Evo waivered but I don't know if the PowerFC falls under any of these catagories. I'm definitely gonna be running the stock cat on test day but other than that I'm running an APEX'I high flow:

The vehicle has failed a retest after qualifying repairs have been made. (Proof of repairs is required.)


All original emissions-related components are present and properly connected.


All eligible emission-warranty repairs and adjustments have been completed.


A minimum of $450 in emissions-related repairs (excluding tampering-related repairs) have been made.


Repairs for model year 1981 vehicles and later are conducted by a recognized repair technician.


Repairs have resulted in an improvement in vehicle emissions.

Would I have any problems with emissions if I run the eManage instead??

I'd rather run a PowerFC though

 

Just unplug Power FC and swap in stock ECU. Takes about 10 seconds. No big deal. Definately go Power FC. It is FAR more powerful than the e-manage although for milder setups the E-Manage is probably more than enough.

 

That's what I thought about doing......but....I've got a Tomei 2.2L stroker kit and 260/260 cams installed. Wouldn't the ECU freak??

 

No, not at all. We've ran some pretty crazy setups with emanage and been fine. Just takes a little longer for the tuning is all.

 

So when I go for emissions I should plug the stock ECU with the eManage back in?? Or should I just go with a stock ECU and I'll be fine with the stroker and cams???

 

Leave emanage in. It is more likely to pass with it in if properly tuned.

 

I believe the alcohols like tolulene and zylene are very good at reducing emissions. We havent had tests down here in florida for a while now. So I dont know all the tricks. There are also little bottles of emission reducers that are available at discount that do indeed work very well.

Its all about the benjamins when it comes to this bullcrap emission stuff. making cars burn clean from the factory should be all that is necessary. the people who take emission stuff off is less than 1% of the cars out there. trucks and suvs polute way more than cars anyway. they are the real problem.