Blown block due to bad tune???
I really appreciate explanation of what happen to my car. I see now that some bottom ends last more than other. As talked to you yesterday I'll drop it off on Thursday. I appreciate your help.
saul, your car made too much torque for your stock rods. that's it. the higher mileage doesn't help, but that's not the reason it failed. i've seen a bunch of motor failures, by tuners across the county including me with stock blocks. it's almost always the same, piston tops are clean, no pitting from detonation, gaskets ok, etc... rods just break in half. the logs from your tune showed no knock, i never let someone leave if i think it's an unsafe tune. i have tuned hundreds of cars on E85, and the timing is not "crazy aggressive". an E85 tune uses more timing then pump gas, that's how they make a lot more torque and power with the fuel. if you wanted it to be ultra safe, we should have stuck with pump gas and kept it around 350whp. i can't know the limit of each individual motor. some make 500whp, 400ftlb of torque for a hundred thousand miles, some make 390whp/390ftlb for a day and blow up. as bad as it sounds, if you don't want it to break under any circumstance, it's going to be slow.
i'm willing to help you in anyway i can (you messaged me two days ago, yesterday was a sunday). i've sent you prices for several different build options, and will work with you on price once we figure out what you want to do.
i'm willing to help you in anyway i can (you messaged me two days ago, yesterday was a sunday). i've sent you prices for several different build options, and will work with you on price once we figure out what you want to do.
saul, your car made too much torque for your stock rods. that's it. the higher mileage doesn't help, but that's not the reason it failed. i've seen a bunch of motor failures, by tuners across the county including me with stock blocks. it's almost always the same, piston tops are clean, no pitting from detonation, gaskets ok, etc... rods just break in half. the logs from your tune showed no knock, i never let someone leave if i think it's an unsafe tune. i have tuned hundreds of cars on E85, and the timing is not "crazy aggressive". an E85 tune uses more timing then pump gas, that's how they make a lot more torque and power with the fuel. if you wanted it to be ultra safe, we should have stuck with pump gas and kept it around 350whp. i can't know the limit of each individual motor. some make 500whp, 400ftlb of torque for a hundred thousand miles, some make 390whp/390ftlb for a day and blow up. as bad as it sounds, if you don't want it to break under any circumstance, it's going to be slow.
i'm willing to help you in anyway i can (you messaged me two days ago, yesterday was a sunday). i've sent you prices for several different build options, and will work with you on price once we figure out what you want to do.
i'm willing to help you in anyway i can (you messaged me two days ago, yesterday was a sunday). i've sent you prices for several different build options, and will work with you on price once we figure out what you want to do.
Stock rods, E85, and timing advance before peak torque (read "high load") equals shortened engine life span.
I would bet that his tune has too much timing at the onset of full boost AKA peak torque.
More tuners than you think tune this way with E85 and though it makes alot of torque it is extremely taxing to the rods and rod bearings.
I have even seen built motors fail prematurely because of this.
Post up that timing map, I would bet money that he has 2-4 degrees or more of timing advance between 3500 and 4500 rpm.
I would bet that his tune has too much timing at the onset of full boost AKA peak torque.
More tuners than you think tune this way with E85 and though it makes alot of torque it is extremely taxing to the rods and rod bearings.
I have even seen built motors fail prematurely because of this.
Post up that timing map, I would bet money that he has 2-4 degrees or more of timing advance between 3500 and 4500 rpm.
Stock block + 9 turbo + E85 + 29 psi = lots of torque = strong possibility of throwing a rod. It is well documented on here that around 400 wtq the stock rods start failing. Yeah, our motors may be way more potent in stock form than the STI's but no one ever said they were bullet proof.
My car was making 430 wtq on a BBK Full and I had the tuner back it down to 390. Is it slower now? Yes. Am I less worried about punching a hole in the block? You bet. Just the name of the game.
My car was making 430 wtq on a BBK Full and I had the tuner back it down to 390. Is it slower now? Yes. Am I less worried about punching a hole in the block? You bet. Just the name of the game.
This is absolutely correct. Most tuners think that you can run the same or MORE timing at peak tq because its e85. Nothing further from the truth. Knock won't show up in logs where MBT is exceeded most of the time depending on the AFR used so many think that because there is no knocksums, then there is no knock and its safe. Nope...
Your tuner may have surpassed MBT with the E85 and not even have known. Hopefully you get this sorted out. Like what was said previously, your car just doesnt go 130k miles, get a retune and then magically blow up. Make sure you get taken care of man, it seems you got hosed.
I made 426wtq on a mustang dyno on e85 on my 9 and it was fine for several months. Then went back to 91. Your tuners therioes are critical when it comes to tuning.
I made 426wtq on a mustang dyno on e85 on my 9 and it was fine for several months. Then went back to 91. Your tuners therioes are critical when it comes to tuning.
Last edited by 73DatsunZ; Jan 5, 2012 at 10:19 AM.
there was even an explanation of what occured.
Evolving Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
From: sweden
tuning is verry adanced things ,
What i understand was your car running on STOCK RODS ! , and thats a bad thing ,
the stock rods , handle more then about 400nm, about ,
so its not the HP thats kills your eninge its ehe torque , get it ?
I say that theare are peaople that run more then 400 nm on stock rods , some run 450 , 460 , and so on,
Your car could have a smal missfire , o and thing in the world ,
Any smal thing fault , anyware , and you are kaboom ! ,
the sock rods are not built to handel that mutch force ,
If you got your self a expericened tuner , he shuld know that you shuld keep the torque down
it he doesent he is an idiot ,
---
Second gear at 5000rpm. I always shift 1000 before red line. Never liked the idea of getting close to the red line.
--
This will tells it all , on stock rods ,
you have djust leaned the expensiv way , about beaing cheap
What i understand was your car running on STOCK RODS ! , and thats a bad thing ,
the stock rods , handle more then about 400nm, about ,
so its not the HP thats kills your eninge its ehe torque , get it ?
I say that theare are peaople that run more then 400 nm on stock rods , some run 450 , 460 , and so on,
Your car could have a smal missfire , o and thing in the world ,
Any smal thing fault , anyware , and you are kaboom ! ,
the sock rods are not built to handel that mutch force ,
If you got your self a expericened tuner , he shuld know that you shuld keep the torque down
it he doesent he is an idiot ,
---
Second gear at 5000rpm. I always shift 1000 before red line. Never liked the idea of getting close to the red line.
--
This will tells it all , on stock rods ,
you have djust leaned the expensiv way , about beaing cheap
dude, read the entire thread before posting up crap about being hosed. Kevin is well respected in this evo community, and in his post was a stand up guy, and it sounds like they are both going to work together this thursday to build the motor.
there was even an explanation of what occured.
there was even an explanation of what occured.
tuning is verry adanced things ,
What i understand was your car running on STOCK RODS ! , and thats a bad thing ,
the stock rods , handle more then about 400nm, about ,
so its not the HP thats kills your eninge its ehe torque , get it ?
I say that theare are peaople that run more then 400 nm on stock rods , some run 450 , 460 , and so on,
Your car could have a smal missfire , o and thing in the world ,
Any smal thing fault , anyware , and you are kaboom ! ,
the sock rods are not built to handel that mutch force ,
If you got your self a expericened tuner , he shuld know that you shuld keep the torque down
it he doesent he is an idiot ,
---
Second gear at 5000rpm. I always shift 1000 before red line. Never liked the idea of getting close to the red line.
--
This will tells it all , on stock rods ,
you have djust leaned the expensiv way , about beaing cheap
What i understand was your car running on STOCK RODS ! , and thats a bad thing ,
the stock rods , handle more then about 400nm, about ,
so its not the HP thats kills your eninge its ehe torque , get it ?
I say that theare are peaople that run more then 400 nm on stock rods , some run 450 , 460 , and so on,
Your car could have a smal missfire , o and thing in the world ,
Any smal thing fault , anyware , and you are kaboom ! ,
the sock rods are not built to handel that mutch force ,
If you got your self a expericened tuner , he shuld know that you shuld keep the torque down
it he doesent he is an idiot ,
---
Second gear at 5000rpm. I always shift 1000 before red line. Never liked the idea of getting close to the red line.
--
This will tells it all , on stock rods ,
you have djust leaned the expensiv way , about beaing cheap
dude, read the entire thread before posting up crap about being hosed. Kevin is well respected in this evo community, and in his post was a stand up guy, and it sounds like they are both going to work together this thursday to build the motor.
there was even an explanation of what occured.
there was even an explanation of what occured.
saul, your car made too much torque for your stock rods. that's it. the higher mileage doesn't help, but that's not the reason it failed. i've seen a bunch of motor failures, by tuners across the county including me with stock blocks. it's almost always the same, piston tops are clean, no pitting from detonation, gaskets ok, etc... rods just break in half. the logs from your tune showed no knock, i never let someone leave if i think it's an unsafe tune. i have tuned hundreds of cars on E85, and the timing is not "crazy aggressive". an E85 tune uses more timing then pump gas, that's how they make a lot more torque and power with the fuel. if you wanted it to be ultra safe, we should have stuck with pump gas and kept it around 350whp. i can't know the limit of each individual motor. some make 500whp, 400ftlb of torque for a hundred thousand miles, some make 390whp/390ftlb for a day and blow up. as bad as it sounds, if you don't want it to break under any circumstance, it's going to be slow.
i'm willing to help you in anyway i can (you messaged me two days ago, yesterday was a sunday). i've sent you prices for several different build options, and will work with you on price once we figure out what you want to do.
i'm willing to help you in anyway i can (you messaged me two days ago, yesterday was a sunday). i've sent you prices for several different build options, and will work with you on price once we figure out what you want to do.
Last edited by Boosted Tuning; Jan 5, 2012 at 12:04 PM.
Yeah motor is part now yup rod completely torn in half. I'm expecting the block next Tuesday and then we are going from there.