hey guys. i am going to try to make this quick and simple. currently my car is on a stock ECU/HKS F-Con ''piggy back'' type setup. it is my understanding that the HKS piggy back takes over the stock ECU's fuel and timing maps. allowing the car to use the stock ECU for its other features and what not. the car on its old setup was over 800HP and over 650TRQ with 44PSI of boost. this year i plan to have the car pushed a little harder on a completely new setup. i do not play into the HP number's game but id like to see somewhere in the 900s. so i have some stuff to ask about.

i have been thinking about ditching the HKS F-Con and going back to a 100% complete stock ECU tuned car or a full standalone like Haltech. my worry is if the stock ecu can reliably handle a 850+HP car? i hope this is not going to sound like an ******* remark but i really do not care if you are making or tuned thousands of 600/700HP stock ecu cars. i really am only interested in your experience with 850+. correct me if i am wrong but i feel that 850+HP setups are a bit different then a run of the mill tune. so can the stock ECU guys who have good experience with high HP stock ecu cars chime in with your honest thoughts. i am not here to make records nor do not care to be the coolest evo on stock ECU either. i just want a car that can run properly, be reliable, start up and idle correctly, and deliver the power reliably and so on. i also do not want tuners to argue in here over anything. you all have different styles of tuning and options. so please keep this clean. baisclaly i just want pros and cons or if i should just go with a full standalone.

also i know it ultimately comes down to how my tuner feels and is capable of but i still want to know what the majority feels about a car on the stock ecu at this caliber.

thanks.

 

I think you stifled your own question with the "what the tuner feels comfortable with".


heres a couple from TSC's portfolio, I don't have any experience with him personally. But I don't think the ~30 HP these two examples are shy from your goal is going to break the day. He has a bunch of 600-800 hp cars on the stock ECU and is very much proof if you read his reviews that drivability and reliability are there.


I try to use fact as I sense you are a punctual person, so this is what I quickly came up with on one tuner's website. obviously TSCOMP.








IMHO you are not asking too much of the stock ecu and you would suffer reliability to get rid of it.

 

Ultimately yes its what the tuner feels comfortable with. I can't expect them to go beyond that. I just wanted a group discussion about cars at that level on the stock ecu. I plan to beat the **** out of the car as I always do when its not broken. I also am aiming for sub 9s with the car. So it needs to be able to consistently keep things in check. The stock ecu has come a long way over the years so I'd like to possibly retry my luck with it.

 

Aren't you tuned by Ivey? He's one of the best tuners hands down.

 

I am already around 850hp at 44psi. This time with a new engine and other mods I plan to push it harder. 50psi or so if the turbo will allow it and looking for 950 or around there. But like I said numbers do not mean much to me. I just want sub 9s out of it

How do you feel about logging sample rates and how does that effect tuning? I have the following stock sensors still. Omni 4 bar map, knock, Fuel temp, tps, aic, front O2, cam and crank, and will be hooked up to a grimspeed 3 port EBC.

I know one shop went 8s on the stock ecu. Which that was it. Also one shop hit 1000+ but never saw anything come from it. I plan to actually get somewhere and hopefully several times.

 

I think MAP may have done a 1000 HP stock ECU. Don't know what happened after that.

You'll need a 5 bar map sensor. Omni makes a 7 bar and AEM makes a 5 bar.

Data logging pre Evo X is pretty good (RAX Patch for the X is amazing). Could be better IMHO, but I haven't ran into any problems with not enough data for WOT pulls. I would like to see higher resolution for some idle and cruise issues that come up sometimes with SD.

 

Can the omni 7 bar work properly on the stock ecu? I'm so out of the loop I thought it was only the 4 bar that was availabile

 

There's dma logging that samples at a much higher rate and requires minimal extra set up.

Not sure if Christian has any experience with that. Maybe he can comment on that.

 

I've never tuned with a 7 bar (I have with a 5 bar), but RoadSpike did a tutorial and it looks like it needs verification of accuracy. https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...-scalings.html

I haven't messed with DMA logging in awhile. I'll have to check it out again. IIRC it gave me multiple sampling of the same data. I could be wrong, but that was years ago. I'll have to get with you on set up.

 

and again.. 850WHP??? thats WAY over 1000HP on the crank.................HOW!?

 

Its actually only about 920 at the crankshaft.

Dan,

Its mostly about fuel delivery as the rest of the systems continue to work like a standalone. As long as you can force enough fuel thru 4 injectors (dual 450s or dual 044s) and then have MAP sensor resolution its fine.

The standalone is more about high speed datalogging which the stock ECU cannot match nor can it match the internal captured datalogging at an even faster rate. The safeties that you can build into the system for oil pressure, coolant temp, and fuel pressure in something like an AEM or Haltech cannot be matched. 4 channel EGT, dual backpressure, the above mentioned sensors, staged injection, those are the reasons to go to a standalone.

As far as the tune, if they have tuned an 800hp car its the same stuff though. How hard its pushed doesnt matter what ECU is in the car as long as it has fuel for the fire and a competent tuner behind the keyboard.

 

I am glad you commented. You are one of the guys I hoped to hear from. You have given a massive amount of honest to the point info to this forum. Thank you

My fuel system is a twin E85 416 fuel pumps, feeding into a 8AN line to the rail. Then 8AN off the rail to a fuel lab FPR. From there it has a 6AN return. I am using ID2000 injectors as well.

Do you see proper resolution with either the 4 or 7 bar omni MAP sensor or the AEM 5 bar MAP? I currently have the Omni 4 bar which is what 58 ish psi??? I do not plan to go higher then 50. Even that scares me. LOL.

As for the 4 channel EGT, dual backpressure, and staged injection I think that is a bit more advanced then my car would ever use LOL. But i understand what you are saying.

 

+1 Aaron's been a big help to me too!

The 4 bar is good to 44 psi. The 5 bar is good @ 59 psi. You may be over 44 psi right now and not know it since the 4 bar maxes out at 44 psi.

 

i have a boost gauge that go's to 50 psi and my HKS has its own map sensor. ironic though HAHAH.

so omni makes a 5bar? ill have to look for it. are they able to be properly setup and remain accurate?

dumb question but as the higher you go in a map sensor does that take away from accuracy for tuning or no?

 

They make a Mitsubishi Map Sensor 3, 4 & 7 Bar. No 5 bar. I was referring to the AEM 5 bar.

Good question. From my understanding, technically the bigger you go the less accurate they are, but it's only 0.043108504398827 psi less accurate from the 4 to the 7 bar.