Turbo q's!
really guys? no one on here actually know what the J pipe is? it has nothing to do with you intercooler piping. it doesnt come OFF your turbo. the j pipe is rrm's 1st gen turbo kit design. basically they made a J pipe that bolts to theyre rrm n/a header in order to save money. the j pipe is what feeds the exhaust side of the turbo causing the turbo to spool up. its a top mount turbo set up whitch means that the turbo sits on top of the J pipe. then your down pipe come off the exhaust outlet of the turbo and goes down and is designed to bolt up to you stock exhaust down pipe. but yeah.. J pipe has nothing to do with intercooler piping or the turbine side of the turbo. search for my build thread and this will give you a good idea of the J pipe set-up. im one of the few people that have it. not many people have this set-up
actually if you look at the first and second gen dsm's thats where it originated from because of the way the turbo was oriented and then down into the passenger side side mount intercooler. not totally sure where you are getting your j pipe from...
josh
that's a neat little kit. So with that thing, you've already got the downpipe work done which is my most complicated piece left. You also have a turbo that I assume has been "groundoff" in all the right places to fit around the coolant piping.
The bad things, the manifold may not work or may bother you too much if it's not perfect as per the description given. The boost controller isn't necessary and probably shouldn't even be used. The greddy e-manage probably wouldn't be my first choice, but better than the apexi one that is recommended.
So, then things you'd still need are just like a wideband, a boost gauge, maybe a few bolts here or there and a good solid tune, ya? I got my slim fans on ebay, so you might need a 1 or 2 of them 12"ers, or whatever fits.
I know there has been some debate about the size of the oil feed fitting needed. Make sure that one is a 5/8 bspt or whatever size it is, not 5/8 npt. the npt one is close but not perfect, it should be bspt.
The bad things, the manifold may not work or may bother you too much if it's not perfect as per the description given. The boost controller isn't necessary and probably shouldn't even be used. The greddy e-manage probably wouldn't be my first choice, but better than the apexi one that is recommended.
So, then things you'd still need are just like a wideband, a boost gauge, maybe a few bolts here or there and a good solid tune, ya? I got my slim fans on ebay, so you might need a 1 or 2 of them 12"ers, or whatever fits.
I know there has been some debate about the size of the oil feed fitting needed. Make sure that one is a 5/8 bspt or whatever size it is, not 5/8 npt. the npt one is close but not perfect, it should be bspt.
the manifold works perfect, doesnt leak or anything. i just kno how some ppl are perfectionist with their stuff. it doesnt look the best, but it works perfect
boost controller isnt necessary...i purchased a few months ago and havent installed it. emanage wouldntve been my first choice, but i couldnt get my hands on a tactix cable to save my life...lol. its not that hard to use though.
yea, everything is already "ground off" that needs to be ground. if anything, its just the coolant pipe thatll need to be "adjusted".
the manifold works perfect, doesnt leak or anything. i just kno how some ppl are perfectionist with their stuff. it doesnt look the best, but it works perfect
boost controller isnt necessary...i purchased a few months ago and havent installed it. emanage wouldntve been my first choice, but i couldnt get my hands on a tactix cable to save my life...lol. its not that hard to use though.
the manifold works perfect, doesnt leak or anything. i just kno how some ppl are perfectionist with their stuff. it doesnt look the best, but it works perfect
boost controller isnt necessary...i purchased a few months ago and havent installed it. emanage wouldntve been my first choice, but i couldnt get my hands on a tactix cable to save my life...lol. its not that hard to use though.
Cant wait until i get it!!
I have heard also doing some research that heat wrapping your manifold can lead to cracking? But i have also heard you want to keep more and as much heat as possible in the exhaust parts because something about more velocity? It makes sense to heat wrap other pipes and wires near the extreme heat coming off the D/P and turbo to protect them from the heat, but if it leads to cracking why do people heat wrap, or is this debatable? Seems to me that if more heat is better for the exhaust and heat wrapping keeps the heat in the exhaust, what would cause the manifold to crack?
Last edited by Mitsu.kid.02; Jul 8, 2010 at 05:03 AM.
I have heard also doing some research that heat wrapping your manifold can lead to cracking? But i have also heard you want to keep more and as much heat as possible in the exhaust parts because something about more velocity? It makes sense to heat wrap other pipes and wires near the extreme heat coming off the D/P and turbo to protect them from the heat, but if it leads to cracking why do people heat wrap, or is this debatable? Seems to me that if more heat is better for the exhaust and heat wrapping keeps the heat in the exhaust, what would cause the manifold to crack?
Cracking occurs because moisture gets into the header wrap and all the heating and cooling occurring at non-optimal (ie faster) speeds causes the cracking I believe. Most, if not all, manufacturers will void your warranty if you use header wrap from what I can tel...but they love it if you use this sort of stuff: http://www.techlinecoatings.com/Exhaust.htm at the very bottom
Also, header wrap can cause rust since water is being held in there, which reduces the life of the piping. Still, plenty of people do it, so there's something there. My vote goes to ceramic, cause it looks pretty which I can't say about the wrap.
Ceramic coatings can keep the heat where it's suppose to be, and that does help power. Check the very bottom, TurboX, made specifically for turbo applications with extreme heats. The ceramic coating air dry's enough to touch it, and then fully cures on the car at about 750. You just drive slowly for about an hour to let it really cook before flooring it or anything. Also, just fyi, before it cures you need to avoid getting any solvents on it, as that will eat the stuff away. Once it cures it's fine though, just before it's heated it's susceptible. Also, just coat the outside of pre turbo parts, if it flakes off it can cause damage to your exhaust fins of the turbo. Also, follow the directions for sandblasting or get someone to, otherwise it won't stick as well.
Last edited by HornstarBU; Jul 8, 2010 at 07:41 AM.
First off....tubular manifolds crack, regardless of wrap, coating, etc if they aren't made well. Even then, all that dang weight pulling down on them, they just don't stand a chance. So, I'll start off by saying brace your turbo, do something with a bracket to take as much of that weight off as you can (without attaching to 2 pieces that move independently cause that would be stupid)
Cracking occurs because moisture gets into the header wrap and all the heating and cooling occurring at non-optimal (ie faster) speeds causes the cracking I believe. Most, if not all, manufacturers will void your warranty if you use header wrap from what I can tel...but they love it if you use this sort of stuff: http://www.techlinecoatings.com/Exhaust.htm at the very bottom
Also, header wrap can cause rust since water is being held in there, which reduces the life of the piping. Still, plenty of people do it, so there's something there. My vote goes to ceramic, cause it looks pretty which I can't say about the wrap.
Ceramic coatings can keep the heat where it's suppose to be, and that does help power. Check the very bottom, TurboX, made specifically for turbo applications with extreme heats. The ceramic coating air dry's enough to touch it, and then fully cures on the car at about 750. You just drive slowly for about an hour to let it really cook before flooring it or anything. Also, just fyi, before it cures you need to avoid getting any solvents on it, as that will eat the stuff away. Once it cures it's fine though, just before it's heated it's susceptible. Also, just coat the outside of pre turbo parts, if it flakes off it can cause damage to your exhaust fins of the turbo. Also, follow the directions for sandblasting or get someone to, otherwise it won't stick as well.
Cracking occurs because moisture gets into the header wrap and all the heating and cooling occurring at non-optimal (ie faster) speeds causes the cracking I believe. Most, if not all, manufacturers will void your warranty if you use header wrap from what I can tel...but they love it if you use this sort of stuff: http://www.techlinecoatings.com/Exhaust.htm at the very bottom
Also, header wrap can cause rust since water is being held in there, which reduces the life of the piping. Still, plenty of people do it, so there's something there. My vote goes to ceramic, cause it looks pretty which I can't say about the wrap.
Ceramic coatings can keep the heat where it's suppose to be, and that does help power. Check the very bottom, TurboX, made specifically for turbo applications with extreme heats. The ceramic coating air dry's enough to touch it, and then fully cures on the car at about 750. You just drive slowly for about an hour to let it really cook before flooring it or anything. Also, just fyi, before it cures you need to avoid getting any solvents on it, as that will eat the stuff away. Once it cures it's fine though, just before it's heated it's susceptible. Also, just coat the outside of pre turbo parts, if it flakes off it can cause damage to your exhaust fins of the turbo. Also, follow the directions for sandblasting or get someone to, otherwise it won't stick as well.
Last edited by Mitsu.kid.02; Jul 8, 2010 at 08:44 AM.
Great information! Thanks a bunch for clearing that up! I will fab some sort of brackets to hold up the turbo, Any ideas on where to attach a bracket? Also, are turbo timers mandatory? I have read that if you turn the engine off quick without letting the turbo cool it can be dangerous for it?
Also, don't mistake coolant temp for oil temp, just because the coolant is not "high" after a fast run, the oil may still be too hot, or more the turbo may still be too hot. If that stuff just sits there boiling in the turbo it can certainly cause problems. This is my one real reason for saying "I want synthetic oil" because it breaks down at a higher temp, but so many people seem to disagree, and say dino! dino! dino!
As far as brackets....03 lances posted a pic in my thread i believe, but it's hard to tell what exactly is goin on there. I will let you know more on this once I've done my "dry fit" of the mani and turbo, as that's when I'll fab up my bracket. Basically, don't connect it to the frame or anything, connect it to the same "unit" as the manifold is connected to (ie somewhere on the engine block) and make sure to take advantage of the existing fulcrum you have where the exhaust mani bolts up by connecting to the bottom of the mani, or even below on the o2 housing and basically pressing directly away from the engine. You want to keep the mani as steady as possible on the engine, with as little "in/out" bend while the turbo is trying to swing around.
I'll take really good pics of this step when I do it, hopefully my solution is something I am proud of, lol. Speed corps was working on a mani brace/bracket, but it has proven more difficult than you would think to actually fab something up. If they get one going, I'm hoping they mail it out to existing customers, but I'd be willing to pay if they made me, lol.
Last edited by HornstarBU; Jul 8, 2010 at 09:40 AM.
They are in no way necessary. They keep your engine running for a certain amount of time after you turn the key off, which keeps oil circulating until the turbo cools to an acceptable temp. You can mimic this by idling the car for a while after you stop driving from a "spirited" run. Normal driving, no need to let it idle, just if you've heated her up too much.
Also, don't mistake coolant temp for oil temp, just because the coolant is not "high" after a fast run, the oil may still be too hot, or more the turbo may still be too hot. If that stuff just sits there boiling in the turbo it can certainly cause problems. This is my one real reason for saying "I want synthetic oil" because it breaks down at a higher temp, but so many people seem to disagree, and say dino! dino! dino!
As far as brackets....03 lances posted a pic in my thread i believe, but it's hard to tell what exactly is goin on there. I will let you know more on this once I've done my "dry fit" of the mani and turbo, as that's when I'll fab up my bracket. Basically, don't connect it to the frame or anything, connect it to the same "unit" as the manifold is connected to (ie somewhere on the engine block) and make sure to take advantage of the existing fulcrum you have where the exhaust mani bolts up by connecting to the bottom of the mani, or even below on the o2 housing and basically pressing directly away from the engine. You want to keep the mani as steady as possible on the engine, with as little "in/out" bend while the turbo is trying to swing around.
I'll take really good pics of this step when I do it, hopefully my solution is something I am proud of, lol. Speed corps was working on a mani brace/bracket, but it has proven more difficult than you would think to actually fab something up. If they get one going, I'm hoping they mail it out to existing customers, but I'd be willing to pay if they made me, lol.
Also, don't mistake coolant temp for oil temp, just because the coolant is not "high" after a fast run, the oil may still be too hot, or more the turbo may still be too hot. If that stuff just sits there boiling in the turbo it can certainly cause problems. This is my one real reason for saying "I want synthetic oil" because it breaks down at a higher temp, but so many people seem to disagree, and say dino! dino! dino!
As far as brackets....03 lances posted a pic in my thread i believe, but it's hard to tell what exactly is goin on there. I will let you know more on this once I've done my "dry fit" of the mani and turbo, as that's when I'll fab up my bracket. Basically, don't connect it to the frame or anything, connect it to the same "unit" as the manifold is connected to (ie somewhere on the engine block) and make sure to take advantage of the existing fulcrum you have where the exhaust mani bolts up by connecting to the bottom of the mani, or even below on the o2 housing and basically pressing directly away from the engine. You want to keep the mani as steady as possible on the engine, with as little "in/out" bend while the turbo is trying to swing around.
I'll take really good pics of this step when I do it, hopefully my solution is something I am proud of, lol. Speed corps was working on a mani brace/bracket, but it has proven more difficult than you would think to actually fab something up. If they get one going, I'm hoping they mail it out to existing customers, but I'd be willing to pay if they made me, lol.
Sounds good!! Thanks so much for helping me understand more, the way you have been explaining things its easy for me to understand, your a good teacher!
Deff would appreciate it if you could share with me the bracket idea when it comes time for you to fab one up!
This is 03lances bracket. Without knocking him, because he's like...my inspiration for turboing, but if you see where the bracket is, it's up pretty high. He may have something lower as well, and I'm not sure, but I think it's best to extend the distance between the top mounting point (ie the bolts holding the mani to the engine) and the bottom point (ie our bracket). The farther away the 2 are, and the more "inline" with the force, the longer it will stand up. I really don't mean for it to sound like I'm knocking his bracket, but when I fab this little puppy up, I am shooting to get 1 or maybe 2 as low on the engine/o2 housing area as I can, to absorb the forward/backward movement of the turbo. I also like 03lances idea of usign some flexpipe (not crappy autozone stuff, but legit flexpipe) or getting a downpipe with it built in. I realize they do leak some, but it's cheaper to replace the flexpipe (and looks better) than the mani.
Last edited by HornstarBU; Jul 8, 2010 at 09:57 AM.
This is 03lances bracket. Without knocking him, because he's like...my inspiration for turboing, but if you see where the bracket is, it's up pretty high. He may have something lower as well, and I'm not sure, but I think it's best to extend the distance between the top mounting point (ie the bolts holding the mani to the engine) and the bottom point (ie our bracket). The farther away the 2 are, and the more "inline" with the force, the longer it will stand up. I really don't mean for it to sound like I'm knocking his bracket, but when I fab this little puppy up, I am shooting to get 1 or maybe 2 as low on the engine/o2 housing area as I can, to absorb the forward/backward movement of the turbo. I also like 03lances idea of usign some flexpipe (not crappy autozone stuff, but legit flexpipe) or getting a downpipe with it built in. I realize they do leak some, but it's cheaper to replace the flexpipe (and looks better) than the mani.
Great example! I see what you mean about the bracket! Having two of them would be the best idea i think! Also the flex pipe is also a good idea as well, never thought of that until you mentioned it..thought the stock evo DP came with one already haha. That wouldnt be a bad idea! Here is another question. ETG is im assuming Exhaust temp gauge? how is this benificial? i notice everyone with turbos installed uses one!
Great example! I see what you mean about the bracket! Having two of them would be the best idea i think! Also the flex pipe is also a good idea as well, never thought of that until you mentioned it..thought the stock evo DP came with one already haha. That wouldnt be a bad idea! Here is another question. ETG is im assuming Exhaust temp gauge? how is this benificial? i notice everyone with turbos installed uses one!
There are many things that will cause the engine to be unhappy, and affect how much power gets created. I think from what I understand, you should tune your car to run in the 11.8-12.2 AFR range while under boost. The reason an EGT complements this, is that if you see very high temperatures, you know a couple things. 1 is your engine may start melting, or the pistons might, so back off. The other is it can tell you a little bit about your wideband, meaning if you get conflicting results, like the wideband looks fine but the EGT says your out of range (at least whatever "normal" is for you) you can tell something may be flakey with one or the other gauges or their sensor.
Some tuners use 4 EGT sensors and tune the engine using the results of these temperatures, and while this may be acceptable, the only true way to tune the engine is on an "engine dyno". Each other method is steadily less accurate, but lets not kid ourselves...plenty of people tune with a wideband, and get really good tunes. Dyno's provide the professional level, and that is evident when you compare a self proclaimed DIY tuner's HP results at a specific PSI to those of a car that has been professionally tuned. Still, many factors will impact the results, so who is to say that something else isn't making the result change.
Without going on all day, lol....EGT is a good gauge to tell you if something is wrong IMO, and Wideband is as well. I will be following the wideband's results while tuning, and basically just keeping an eye on what the EGT's get to, as a safety precaution.
*Edit* oh, also...read this page http://www.sdsefi.com/techegt.htm
I tell you, I rolled around with this one a while too. I eventually decided to go ahead and buy it, just for security reasons. Some people will tell you to tune via EGT, but I don't feel like this is what you should do. Here is how I view the EGT sensor and how it complements the Wideband.
There are many things that will cause the engine to be unhappy, and affect how much power gets created. I think from what I understand, you should tune your car to run in the 11.8-12.2 AFR range while under boost. The reason an EGT complements this, is that if you see very high temperatures, you know a couple things. 1 is your engine may start melting, or the pistons might, so back off. The other is it can tell you a little bit about your wideband, meaning if you get conflicting results, like the wideband looks fine but the EGT says your out of range (at least whatever "normal" is for you) you can tell something may be flakey with one or the other gauges or their sensor.
Some tuners use 4 EGT sensors and tune the engine using the results of these temperatures, and while this may be acceptable, the only true way to tune the engine is on an "engine dyno". Each other method is steadily less accurate, but lets not kid ourselves...plenty of people tune with a wideband, and get really good tunes. Dyno's provide the professional level, and that is evident when you compare a self proclaimed DIY tuner's HP results at a specific PSI to those of a car that has been professionally tuned. Still, many factors will impact the results, so who is to say that something else isn't making the result change.
Without going on all day, lol....EGT is a good gauge to tell you if something is wrong IMO, and Wideband is as well. I will be following the wideband's results while tuning, and basically just keeping an eye on what the EGT's get to, as a safety precaution.
*Edit* oh, also...read this page http://www.sdsefi.com/techegt.htm
There are many things that will cause the engine to be unhappy, and affect how much power gets created. I think from what I understand, you should tune your car to run in the 11.8-12.2 AFR range while under boost. The reason an EGT complements this, is that if you see very high temperatures, you know a couple things. 1 is your engine may start melting, or the pistons might, so back off. The other is it can tell you a little bit about your wideband, meaning if you get conflicting results, like the wideband looks fine but the EGT says your out of range (at least whatever "normal" is for you) you can tell something may be flakey with one or the other gauges or their sensor.
Some tuners use 4 EGT sensors and tune the engine using the results of these temperatures, and while this may be acceptable, the only true way to tune the engine is on an "engine dyno". Each other method is steadily less accurate, but lets not kid ourselves...plenty of people tune with a wideband, and get really good tunes. Dyno's provide the professional level, and that is evident when you compare a self proclaimed DIY tuner's HP results at a specific PSI to those of a car that has been professionally tuned. Still, many factors will impact the results, so who is to say that something else isn't making the result change.
Without going on all day, lol....EGT is a good gauge to tell you if something is wrong IMO, and Wideband is as well. I will be following the wideband's results while tuning, and basically just keeping an eye on what the EGT's get to, as a safety precaution.
*Edit* oh, also...read this page http://www.sdsefi.com/techegt.htm
Seriously my brain is swelling with the knowlage!! woo!! haha i cant wait to start!! I have a pretty good idea on how to install the turbo kit, the IC piping, the oil feed/ return line/ the cooling lines for the turbo, i still need to research how to install the FMU and evo9 BOV and how to route the vac lines, i already have a vac/boost gauge and oil pressure gauge and volt gauge installed so im going to get a EGT gauge oil temp and W-AFR gauge. Since im only going to be at about 5 PSI im thinking i can stick with the 330CC injectors included in the pre-kit with my stock fuel pump and kind of pre-tune it with the greddy e-manage so i can drive safely because this car is my DD. Once i can have the car drivable safely im going to install the 440 injectors with the 255 fuel pump and up the boost to 7-8 PSI and tune with ECUflash and get a tactrix 2.0 openport. That sound ok?