Needed some help with a system
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Miami
Needed some help with a system
Hello guys, I have 2 10" old subs in my car and I am thinking about upgrading to 2 12" subs with each around 1000 max Watts (2000 Watts x pair).
Anyways I wanted to know what amp would I need to hook these up, would it be better to buy 1 2000 watt amp or 2 1000 watt amps, or would there be no difference?
Also, I was thinking of getting 4 ohms, but not sure what the difference is between that and 2 ohms...
I was thinking of getting MTX since I have seen some good deals but maybe I change my mind, I want to do a professional installation at a shop I just need help choosing the amps and stuff.
And also would it be a good idea to get the amp same brand as the subs or is that no matter?
Anyways I wanted to know what amp would I need to hook these up, would it be better to buy 1 2000 watt amp or 2 1000 watt amps, or would there be no difference?
Also, I was thinking of getting 4 ohms, but not sure what the difference is between that and 2 ohms...
I was thinking of getting MTX since I have seen some good deals but maybe I change my mind, I want to do a professional installation at a shop I just need help choosing the amps and stuff.
And also would it be a good idea to get the amp same brand as the subs or is that no matter?
Last edited by On18s; Mar 25, 2010 at 07:54 AM.
Evolved Member
iTrader: (16)
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 0
From: Daytona Beach/Melbourne, Florida
my advice: YOU dont do anything
you never look at max watts for subs, only RMS for power ratings.
I have a system for sale if you are interested. 2 Memphis 12s and a Hifonics amp, running at 600 watts RMS, let me know!
you never look at max watts for subs, only RMS for power ratings.
I have a system for sale if you are interested. 2 Memphis 12s and a Hifonics amp, running at 600 watts RMS, let me know!
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Miami
Ok well I was looking around after I got home from work and2 subs caught my eye.
I got the Kenwood KFC w3011 400RMS/1200Max sells for ~ $60 USD and the Rockford Fosgate Punch P3d412 500RMS/1000Max which sells for ~150 USD on this site, those are actual product names.
Anyways I listen to old school rap and other rappers that most people dont knwo about like OJ Da Juiceman and Big Stacks to name some. Anyways this plus most if not all of the songs I listen to have very low notes.
Ok now... would it be really worth it to spend an extra $100 on each sub for those rockford? If I do save these subs will come in the later future.
My friend has 2 of these kenwood subs in his car and I listened it today during work but not for long. I was amazed either way because it sounds way nicer than my 10s
, he only has like a 300 watt amp on them but I did not ask him what it was or anything, if it was RMS or Max 300.
Now is the first time someone has told me to use RMS to measure for power instead of max, but then again I never really asked anybody so I never knew.
Ok, as I am writing this I think those kenwoods sounded nice and in the money situation I'm in now sound like a better deal, Ill still need a box and whatnot.
Now, main topic.
Lets say I were to get the 2 Kenwoods listed above. Things I would also need to buy.
1)
a. I would like to put 1 amp to each sub, since I have heard it is better.(Not sure if true)
b. Put 1 amp for both subs
* For this how should I measure the amp I need what would be a good brand and a good RMS to look for?
2) Sealed or Ported box
* I dont know everyone disagrees here but give me your opinions, I am not looking to put the car in my living room and use it as surround sound with 100% crystal clear sound quality, I just want really low bass, as high as it goes, that fits in my trunk.
3)Capacitor
* I think that with around 2000 Max watts I may need it, I dont know, never had to call AAA to pick me up dont want to anytime soon, but what do I know.
What to look for in a capacitor? I wouldnt mind spending a little more on a capacitor, even it its only recommended not needed.
4) Its almost 2 AM here I dont want to keep on writing, had a rough day.
As I reread my post I sound very demanding but I just want a nice sound system and I dont know much about it, never liked talking to shop owners because they pretty much try to sell you what they need to sell. I have heard "Kicker is the best" "Memphis is the best" "Pioneer is the best" "MTX is the best" and "Boston Acoustics is the best" all on one day of calling up shops so if you guys could help me out I would probably feel a lot more relieved.
Im writing most of this out of my ***, I only have an amateur understanding of these things. Also I have my 2 10s installed to the car already would I need to buy any more wiring?
EDIT: added this guy -->
And 2 or 4 Ohm?
Current Setup: Click to enlarge
I got the Kenwood KFC w3011 400RMS/1200Max sells for ~ $60 USD and the Rockford Fosgate Punch P3d412 500RMS/1000Max which sells for ~150 USD on this site, those are actual product names.
Anyways I listen to old school rap and other rappers that most people dont knwo about like OJ Da Juiceman and Big Stacks to name some. Anyways this plus most if not all of the songs I listen to have very low notes.
Ok now... would it be really worth it to spend an extra $100 on each sub for those rockford? If I do save these subs will come in the later future.
My friend has 2 of these kenwood subs in his car and I listened it today during work but not for long. I was amazed either way because it sounds way nicer than my 10s
, he only has like a 300 watt amp on them but I did not ask him what it was or anything, if it was RMS or Max 300.Now is the first time someone has told me to use RMS to measure for power instead of max, but then again I never really asked anybody so I never knew.
Ok, as I am writing this I think those kenwoods sounded nice and in the money situation I'm in now sound like a better deal, Ill still need a box and whatnot.
Now, main topic.
Lets say I were to get the 2 Kenwoods listed above. Things I would also need to buy.
1)
a. I would like to put 1 amp to each sub, since I have heard it is better.(Not sure if true)
b. Put 1 amp for both subs
* For this how should I measure the amp I need what would be a good brand and a good RMS to look for?
2) Sealed or Ported box
* I dont know everyone disagrees here but give me your opinions, I am not looking to put the car in my living room and use it as surround sound with 100% crystal clear sound quality, I just want really low bass, as high as it goes, that fits in my trunk.
3)Capacitor
* I think that with around 2000 Max watts I may need it, I dont know, never had to call AAA to pick me up dont want to anytime soon, but what do I know.
What to look for in a capacitor? I wouldnt mind spending a little more on a capacitor, even it its only recommended not needed.
4) Its almost 2 AM here I dont want to keep on writing, had a rough day.
As I reread my post I sound very demanding but I just want a nice sound system and I dont know much about it, never liked talking to shop owners because they pretty much try to sell you what they need to sell. I have heard "Kicker is the best" "Memphis is the best" "Pioneer is the best" "MTX is the best" and "Boston Acoustics is the best" all on one day of calling up shops so if you guys could help me out I would probably feel a lot more relieved.
Im writing most of this out of my ***, I only have an amateur understanding of these things. Also I have my 2 10s installed to the car already would I need to buy any more wiring?
EDIT: added this guy -->
And 2 or 4 Ohm?
Current Setup: Click to enlarge
Last edited by On18s; Mar 25, 2010 at 11:00 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Encinitas, CA
I think you've looked to far into it for someone who doesn't really know to much about car audio (sorry if that came off mean, but by the looks of it, it sounds like your not very knowledgeable about car audio), so lets start over!
You want to change out your system from dual 10's to dual 12's.
The kenwood subs are 400w RMS with a single voice coil, at 4 ohms.
The rockford fosgate subs are 500w RMS with dual voice coils, 4 ohms.
[If this is incorrect so far, then disregard the next part]
***1.) If you want dual 12's, then your going to need either:
A) two 400 (if you go with Kenwood) or 500 (if you go with RF) watt RMS amps at 2 ohms
or
B) one 800 (Kenwood) or one 1,000 (RF) watt RMS amp at 2 ohms.
*EXTRA INFO - ohm levels measure the impedance (resistance) of a circuit (in this application, the power going to the subwoofers). Less resistance usually means more power, and more stability. BUT, it has been argued that a system wired for 4 ohms, as compared to 2 ohms, produces better sound quality. In my opinion, the difference in quality is too minimal to notice.
*EXTRA INFO - Using two amps instead of one is really only dependent on how efficient the amplifier is. If you are using a cheaper amp, then the power output will probably drop to less than ideal wattages by powering dual subs. HOWEVER, I myself have never experienced this problem, and especially because you are only going to be needing a max of 1000 watts rms, I would just go with a single amp.
****2. Ported boxes offer less frequency response, but much more SPL (essentially louder). Sealed boxes on the other hand, offer a greater frequency response, but much less SPL (not nearly as loud as ported boxes). Because you mentioned that you wanted deep bass, and clear highs, I would go with a sealed box. If your really worried about how loud your subs will/will not be, let me assure you. With dual 12's in a lancer, its going to be plenty loud. I have dual kicker 12"s, and I can shake my garage fairly decently =]
****3. Capacitors. I don't know what you know about caps, so I'm just going to go through the basics. If this sounds redundant, I apologize.
Capacitors essentially act as a second battery. Capacitors are charged by being in a completed circuit, and disperse energy as needed to keep your electrical system in check. Although that it is true that no stock electrical system is meant to handle aftermarket car audio equipment, in most cases (especially new cars like yours produced after 2005), the stock system can handle an added 1000w rms easily (*NOTE THAT I AM USING THE RMS RATING TO DETERMINE IF YOU NEED A CAP OR NOT. IN ALL HONESTY, THE PEAK RATING IS NOTHING MORE THAN A MARKETING SCHEME).
***EXTRA INFO - Capacitors are rated in Farads (abbreviated as F). A 1F Cap is meant to handle systems up to 1,000w (rms). A 2F Cap is meant to handle systems up to 2,000w (rms), and so on.
If you are really worried about running down your system, then get a 1 Farad Capacitor. ***IF YOU DECIDE TO GO WITH A CAP, THEN GO WITH A NAME BRAND.***
4. Your final question, 2 ohms or 4 ohms?
The answer to this question is going to vary depending on what subs you get (Kenwood or Fosgate).
This is because the kenwood subs are single voice coils, and the rockford fosgate subs are dual voice coils. This changes what levels your able to get.
***If you go with the kenwoods, wire them in parallel to get a 2 OHM load. (You said your going to a shop so I wont go into detail, PM me if you want me to).
***If you go with the Rockford Fosgate's, wire them in series/parrallel to maintain a 4 OHM load. (Once again, PM me if you want me to go into detail, but this is unneeded info for you). The reason why you would want a 4 OHM load with the RF's, is because you can only wire them for 1 Ohm, or 4 Ohms. I personally believe that 1 Ohm systems do not sound as nice as 4 Ohm systems, because every bit of noise and signal gets sent to the subs at 1 Ohm levels, usually taking away from the sound quality.
PM me if you have any other questions, but if you go to a shop, just tell them what amp and subs you want and they will do the rest.
*******MOST IMPORTANT INFO*********
DO NOT CHEAP OUT ON YOUR CAR AUDIO!!!!!! You will not be happy with the results, AT ALL. Take my word for it.
You want to change out your system from dual 10's to dual 12's.
The kenwood subs are 400w RMS with a single voice coil, at 4 ohms.
The rockford fosgate subs are 500w RMS with dual voice coils, 4 ohms.
[If this is incorrect so far, then disregard the next part]
***1.) If you want dual 12's, then your going to need either:
A) two 400 (if you go with Kenwood) or 500 (if you go with RF) watt RMS amps at 2 ohms
or
B) one 800 (Kenwood) or one 1,000 (RF) watt RMS amp at 2 ohms.
*EXTRA INFO - ohm levels measure the impedance (resistance) of a circuit (in this application, the power going to the subwoofers). Less resistance usually means more power, and more stability. BUT, it has been argued that a system wired for 4 ohms, as compared to 2 ohms, produces better sound quality. In my opinion, the difference in quality is too minimal to notice.
*EXTRA INFO - Using two amps instead of one is really only dependent on how efficient the amplifier is. If you are using a cheaper amp, then the power output will probably drop to less than ideal wattages by powering dual subs. HOWEVER, I myself have never experienced this problem, and especially because you are only going to be needing a max of 1000 watts rms, I would just go with a single amp.
****2. Ported boxes offer less frequency response, but much more SPL (essentially louder). Sealed boxes on the other hand, offer a greater frequency response, but much less SPL (not nearly as loud as ported boxes). Because you mentioned that you wanted deep bass, and clear highs, I would go with a sealed box. If your really worried about how loud your subs will/will not be, let me assure you. With dual 12's in a lancer, its going to be plenty loud. I have dual kicker 12"s, and I can shake my garage fairly decently =]
****3. Capacitors. I don't know what you know about caps, so I'm just going to go through the basics. If this sounds redundant, I apologize.
Capacitors essentially act as a second battery. Capacitors are charged by being in a completed circuit, and disperse energy as needed to keep your electrical system in check. Although that it is true that no stock electrical system is meant to handle aftermarket car audio equipment, in most cases (especially new cars like yours produced after 2005), the stock system can handle an added 1000w rms easily (*NOTE THAT I AM USING THE RMS RATING TO DETERMINE IF YOU NEED A CAP OR NOT. IN ALL HONESTY, THE PEAK RATING IS NOTHING MORE THAN A MARKETING SCHEME).
***EXTRA INFO - Capacitors are rated in Farads (abbreviated as F). A 1F Cap is meant to handle systems up to 1,000w (rms). A 2F Cap is meant to handle systems up to 2,000w (rms), and so on.
If you are really worried about running down your system, then get a 1 Farad Capacitor. ***IF YOU DECIDE TO GO WITH A CAP, THEN GO WITH A NAME BRAND.***
4. Your final question, 2 ohms or 4 ohms?
The answer to this question is going to vary depending on what subs you get (Kenwood or Fosgate).
This is because the kenwood subs are single voice coils, and the rockford fosgate subs are dual voice coils. This changes what levels your able to get.
***If you go with the kenwoods, wire them in parallel to get a 2 OHM load. (You said your going to a shop so I wont go into detail, PM me if you want me to).
***If you go with the Rockford Fosgate's, wire them in series/parrallel to maintain a 4 OHM load. (Once again, PM me if you want me to go into detail, but this is unneeded info for you). The reason why you would want a 4 OHM load with the RF's, is because you can only wire them for 1 Ohm, or 4 Ohms. I personally believe that 1 Ohm systems do not sound as nice as 4 Ohm systems, because every bit of noise and signal gets sent to the subs at 1 Ohm levels, usually taking away from the sound quality.
PM me if you have any other questions, but if you go to a shop, just tell them what amp and subs you want and they will do the rest.
*******MOST IMPORTANT INFO*********
DO NOT CHEAP OUT ON YOUR CAR AUDIO!!!!!! You will not be happy with the results, AT ALL. Take my word for it.
Evolved Member
iTrader: (16)
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 0
From: Daytona Beach/Melbourne, Florida
i hope you know that wattage doesnt always matter. my subs I have now are 100 watts RMS each, and im hitting at LEAST a 130 db with 2 of them. want me to take a video of them if you dont believe me?
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Miami
Thanks yitzac1990 and Lancer517 for the detailed response, I wish I didnt have to cheap out on subs, last year I had almost 2 Grand in money saved up for subs, but college and financial aid not processing meant I had to drop my money into my studies, which I needed at the time more than a car system and now I have too many things to worry about, what can I say, things dont always go as planned.
I also do a lot of work with 3d modeling and have dished out a lot of money in being able to have a nice pc setup.
Anyways to make this quick, thank you guys both a lot, ima look into the info you gave me and for now I'll probably go with the kenwoods. I have some spare time in the afternoon Ima go over to friends house to hear his.
And yitzac1990 of course I believe you lol, I think my information is the one that cant be trusted here, but it would be nice to hear your car subs, I browse through youtube looking for these a lot, I like hearing peoples setups.
Unfortunatelly, Chemistry and Calculus and Physics keep my knowledge on these things to a minimum as I have virtually no time to read around and understand more about subs, but you made a pretty nice explanation I know where you were going with it.
Anyways guys thanks again! And in a couple of weeks I'll be posting up a video of it, maybe less.
I was gonna buy bigger subs but I chickened out since I didnt want to put 2 bigger subs in a new lancer xD
I have heard some amps are better than others, and you guys said dont get a cheap amp, I wont but, which brands should I look out for when buying, whats good out there?
I also do a lot of work with 3d modeling and have dished out a lot of money in being able to have a nice pc setup.
Anyways to make this quick, thank you guys both a lot, ima look into the info you gave me and for now I'll probably go with the kenwoods. I have some spare time in the afternoon Ima go over to friends house to hear his.
And yitzac1990 of course I believe you lol, I think my information is the one that cant be trusted here, but it would be nice to hear your car subs, I browse through youtube looking for these a lot, I like hearing peoples setups.
Unfortunatelly, Chemistry and Calculus and Physics keep my knowledge on these things to a minimum as I have virtually no time to read around and understand more about subs, but you made a pretty nice explanation I know where you were going with it.
Anyways guys thanks again! And in a couple of weeks I'll be posting up a video of it, maybe less.
I was gonna buy bigger subs but I chickened out since I didnt want to put 2 bigger subs in a new lancer xD
I have heard some amps are better than others, and you guys said dont get a cheap amp, I wont but, which brands should I look out for when buying, whats good out there?
Last edited by On18s; Mar 26, 2010 at 06:05 AM.
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Miami
Also I am gonna put my subs for sale, their 2 10s 250 watts RMS in a box, these things are OLD! They hit hard and everything like new pretty much, since nothing else has ever been in my trunks their not even dented or anything. Pioneer TSW 254 C 10" How much do you guys think I could sell it for, when I got them they were worth like $100 each but Im thinking of letting it go for like $80 bucks maybe cheaper (the 2 10s in the box), I dont know if I am going too low I just want to get rid of them fast.
I am going to go check out a local store now for the kenwoods my friend told me installed his.
EDIT: Btw lets say I was getting 1 amp what amp would/ should I get how many RMS?
I am going to go check out a local store now for the kenwoods my friend told me installed his.
EDIT: Btw lets say I was getting 1 amp what amp would/ should I get how many RMS?
Last edited by On18s; Mar 26, 2010 at 08:46 AM.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Miami
well the last post was about the 2 10s I have I want to sell.
Well I want to feel the low Hz notes as loud as I can (dont know what RMS)
(Now I have 800 Max and not happy with it.)
~ $450-500 USD.
12" Kenwood KFC w3011
or
12" Kenwood KFC w3012
Those subs sound nice maybe you guys can find something better.
Well I want to feel the low Hz notes as loud as I can (dont know what RMS)
(Now I have 800 Max and not happy with it.)
~ $450-500 USD.
12" Kenwood KFC w3011
or
12" Kenwood KFC w3012
Those subs sound nice maybe you guys can find something better.
Last edited by On18s; Mar 26, 2010 at 11:45 AM.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
From: Encinitas, CA
But, it is true that you do not need a ridiculous amount of power, is that what you meant?
I'm only using 700w rms to power dual 12's, and dual 6.5's.
Oh, and I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I'm sure your set up hits very hard and very loud. BUT, I doubt you can get 130db SPL from dual 100 rms subs. The record for SPL is 180 db, and thats with dual WALLS of subs. To put it in more perspective, take a look at the standings for Crutchfield's Fall Sound-Off comp.
The first place am-set up reached 141 db, and second place got 131 db. And these cars are very tricked out, not just some subs in a box in the trunk like ours.
Here's the standings link:
http://mecacaraudio.com/eventresults.aspx?eventid=927
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Miami
Allright guys was searching on craigslist spoke to some guy. I guess these are the w3011 and he is letting them go for $200 in a box, some scratches but nothing major, what do you guys think?
Kenwood 2 12" in Sealed box
like I typed thats not the actual box, their in a sealed box.
What amp could I use for that? that wont be too much?
Kenwood 2 12" in Sealed box
like I typed thats not the actual box, their in a sealed box.
What amp could I use for that? that wont be too much?
Last edited by On18s; Mar 26, 2010 at 01:21 PM.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Miami
Ok, I pulled this from up top...
The kenwood subs are 400w RMS with a single voice coil, at 4 ohms. (Ima get these)
Now I could choose from either one of these? right?
two 400 watt RMS amps at 2 ohms.
or one 800 watt RMS amp at 2 ohms.
The kenwood subs are 400w RMS with a single voice coil, at 4 ohms. (Ima get these)
Now I could choose from either one of these? right?
two 400 watt RMS amps at 2 ohms.
or one 800 watt RMS amp at 2 ohms.
Evolved Member
iTrader: (16)
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,710
Likes: 0
From: Daytona Beach/Melbourne, Florida
I don't really know in what context you meant by this, but wattage definitely does matter. If you under power your system its not going to sound or hit nearly as well.
But, it is true that you do not need a ridiculous amount of power, is that what you meant?
I'm only using 700w rms to power dual 12's, and dual 6.5's.
Oh, and I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I'm sure your set up hits very hard and very loud. BUT, I doubt you can get 130db SPL from dual 100 rms subs. The record for SPL is 180 db, and thats with dual WALLS of subs. To put it in more perspective, take a look at the standings for Crutchfield's Fall Sound-Off comp.
The first place am-set up reached 141 db, and second place got 131 db. And these cars are very tricked out, not just some subs in a box in the trunk like ours.
Here's the standings link:
http://mecacaraudio.com/eventresults.aspx?eventid=927
But, it is true that you do not need a ridiculous amount of power, is that what you meant?
I'm only using 700w rms to power dual 12's, and dual 6.5's.
Oh, and I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I'm sure your set up hits very hard and very loud. BUT, I doubt you can get 130db SPL from dual 100 rms subs. The record for SPL is 180 db, and thats with dual WALLS of subs. To put it in more perspective, take a look at the standings for Crutchfield's Fall Sound-Off comp.
The first place am-set up reached 141 db, and second place got 131 db. And these cars are very tricked out, not just some subs in a box in the trunk like ours.
Here's the standings link:
http://mecacaraudio.com/eventresults.aspx?eventid=927
Allright guys was searching on craigslist spoke to some guy. I guess these are the w3011 and he is letting them go for $200 in a box, some scratches but nothing major, what do you guys think?
Kenwood 2 12" in Sealed box
like I typed thats not the actual box, their in a sealed box.
What amp could I use for that? that wont be too much?
Kenwood 2 12" in Sealed box
like I typed thats not the actual box, their in a sealed box.
What amp could I use for that? that wont be too much?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVGNCiXZhhY
i didnt have my "Bass" CD so this is Deadmau5 - Vanishing Point.
Last edited by yitzac1990; Mar 26, 2010 at 01:54 PM.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Miami
Guys does this seem like a good deal?
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/ele/1662010210.html
I do not want that sub I was actually looking for different subs but the price he is selling is pretty much the price of the amp alone. What do you guys think?
Then I could buy another P300-1 and mount it on the 2 kenwoods.
I would be using 600/800 Watts RMS but do you guys think that will pound hard? Its rocksford?
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/ele/1662010210.html
I do not want that sub I was actually looking for different subs but the price he is selling is pretty much the price of the amp alone. What do you guys think?
Then I could buy another P300-1 and mount it on the 2 kenwoods.
I would be using 600/800 Watts RMS but do you guys think that will pound hard? Its rocksford?