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One guy's opinion on crank pulleys

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Old Aug 1, 2007, 07:37 AM
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One guy's opinion on crank pulleys

When talking to a buddy about the benefits of a crank pulley he emailed this to me.

We've had lots of questions about crank pulleys lately, so here's all we know.

First, the crank pulley is the main pulley on the end of the crank (duh) that drives the accessories -- alternator, water pump, and air conditioning compressor.

An "underdrive" crank pulley is a pulley with a smaller diameter. The result is that it drives the accessories more slowly, and with greater mechanical leverage. It's like pedaling a bicycle up a hill with the smallest sprocket engaged on the crank. The goal of the underdrive pulley is to reduce drag from the accessories on the motor. Of course, if the accessories are turning more slowly, they will also be that much less effective, but life is all about compromises.

Does an underdrive pulley really add horsepower? The pulley manufacturers say they do, and we've seen tests in magazines that seemed to indicate signficant gains. But you could get the same sort of gains during a drag race WITHOUT an underdrive pulley by removing the belt from your alternator. (The motor can run solely off the battery for a short time.)

The other benefit of aftermarket pulleys is to reduce rotating mass. Here the simple aluminum crank pulley has a big advantage over the heavy stock pulley, but there's a reason it's so much lighter: It's missing the harmonic dampener. The reduction in rotating mass may be worth a couple of horsepower. But removing the dampener seems like a bad idea to us.

The factory crank pulley has a built-in harmonic dampener, in the form of a split design, with a thick rubber pad sandwiched between two steel sheels. The dampener is designed to absorb torsional and vertical vibrations from the crank. MOST underdrive crank pulleys (with the exception of the Buschur Racing model) do not have a harmonic dampener at all.

Torsional vibration is a twisting vibration caused by the pulses of each combustion event. The force of the piston causes the crank to deflect ever so slightly in the direction of the force, and when that force goes away the crank ever-so-slightly springs back. At certain frequencies the crank can resonate, making the vibration much worse. This is where the harmonic dampener comes into play.

Although many DSM owners have removed the harmonic dampener crank pulley without incident, doing so almost certainly increases crank bearing wear, and COULD lead to early failure of the crank or crank bearings. Just how much the life of these parts is shortened is unknown.

We do have one piece of first-hand experience, to offer, though. We know of ONE instance of crank failure on the 4G63 motor. It was a 2.3-liter motor that belong to an employee of ours. The crank cracked in two -- the only time we have ever seen this happen. That block had an undampened crank pulley on it.

On a race motor, increased risk of bearing or crank problems is insignficant next to the risk of, say, detonation in the cylinder that could blow up the motor. So for a race block, we heartily endorse lightweight undampened crank pulleys.

But for a street-driven car, one that you might want to last a couple of hundred thousand miles, we do not recommend using a pulley without a harmonic dampener.

One last note: The rubber in the OEM crank pulley gets old and weak over time, and it's not uncommon on high-mileage motors to see the crank pulley completely come apart. This can be a serious problem if the accessory belts wind their way into the timing belt area. The moral of the story: Inspect your crank pulley the next time you're working on the car, and replace it if it shows any signs of looseness or wobbling.
Now i think he jacked this from somewhere else as this doesn't sound like his writing but I tend to agree with him. I have had nothing but problems on underdrives seeing as I had a stereo too and it fried the crap out of my alternator.

So just some food for thought before you think ALL mods are the **** on your daily driver street car.

Edit: I had originally had [edited] in the title and post, but I called it the wrong company name.

==================================================

Moderator edit: this is from a post further down, but it's important.

SUMMARY

It is the opinion of some people that removing the stock crank pulley and replacing it with ANY underdrive kit or lightweight kit will cause damage to your crank, belts, accessories, or cam. NONE OF THIS HAS BEEN PROVEN although the idea has theoretical value and should be taken with a grain of salt.

Many people are running these parts WITH NO ADVERSE EFFECTS and have seen an increase in performance.

We are not knocking one company or part over ANY OTHER this was meant to be a generic review of the ideas behind a crank pulley.

If you have a part such as this, do not worry about your engine. Please read the next pages for more information regarding positive and negative opinion regarding pulleys.

This is an article from Mach V performance and was quoted in error as coming from a different source. All misquotes should be disregarded.

Last edited by Blacksheepdj; Aug 7, 2007 at 10:55 AM.
Old Aug 1, 2007, 10:12 AM
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The pulley from RRM isn't underdriven, FWIW. You probably know that, but I'm making it clear for the future readers.

Also, are we sure our pulley HAS a harmonic balancer in it? It's a 4B11, not a Smallblock Chevy...
Old Aug 1, 2007, 10:43 AM
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These motors have balance shafts so not a big deal really to do a pulley and yes it is not UD.

ROAD/RACE
Old Aug 1, 2007, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ROCK
These motors have balance shafts so not a big deal really to do a pulley and yes it is not UD.

ROAD/RACE
So do you think the stock pulley acts as a balancer at all?
Old Aug 1, 2007, 04:21 PM
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yeah sorry this was more for guys with the 4g whatever the hell RA motor it was, I am already tired of people on here (myself included, I need to be more careful what I say I KNOW) thinking they know everything.

I like how ROCK put it on a thread somewhere, just because a known company sells you a performance part doesn't mean it is good or adds performance, it just means they are taking your money.
Old Aug 1, 2007, 05:43 PM
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This part he got right:

"The factory crank pulley has a built-in harmonic dampener, in the form of a split design, with a thick rubber pad sandwiched between two steel sheels. The dampener is designed to absorb torsional and vertical vibrations from the crank. MOST underdrive crank pulleys (with the exception of the Buschur Racing model) do not have a harmonic dampener at all."


Here are pics of the stock pulley removed. You can clearly see the rubber pad that he is referring to. But like Rock said, these 4B11 engines have internal balancing shafts. There should be no worries.



Old Aug 1, 2007, 08:51 PM
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Crap.

That severely affects my purchase decision. Having to replace the main and rod bearings sooner is not my idea of a good thing.
Old Aug 2, 2007, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ROCK
These motors have balance shafts so not a big deal really to do a pulley and yes it is not UD.

ROAD/RACE
The dampener is to dampen the torisonal vibrations caused by the off and on torques applied during each combustion. Whereas the balance shafts are used to counter act the vibrations caused by the inherently unbalanced nature of the inline 4 cylinder engine. Even most race teams do not remove the dampner. If you would like to see an example of something in resonance type "Tacoma narrows bridge" into google and watch the video. I'm not sure what the natural frequency is of this system, but I am sure that Mitsubishi paid some eningeers a lot of money to make sure that it never hit it.
Old Aug 3, 2007, 10:17 AM
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hmmm that almost makes me want to consider takin my crank pulley off and put the stock one back on
Old Aug 3, 2007, 11:05 AM
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Selections from my local car club forum's comments:

Person 1: serious thought: I don't think this is a harmonic balancer. I think it is more of a harmonic damper, similar to the cush drive used on a motorcycle wheel. My bet would be that this is used for damping the shock when the a/c compressor kicks in. Will the removal hurt things? maybe, most potential would be for 'odd' shocks to be transmitted to the cams/valves, depending on how they are driven. Don't have any proof of function, but that is my thought based on looking at it.

Person 1 again, separate post: I am 100% confident it does not act as a dampener. It may, however, act as a damper. On a v8 this is used to damp the crankshaft vibration, but my understanding is that on most I-4's this is largely there for NVH reduction, vs mechanical need.

Person 2: Doug, your car is unresponsive because you bought a heavy low powered front wheel drive automatic with a torque converter geared for fuel mileage. XXX is right about the damping. Power isn't delivered smoothly, it comes in big spikes concurrent with combustion. Having the rubber there saves wear on everything that spins off the front of the block: Oil pump water pump alternator a/c compressor P/S pump etc. Alot of cars get by with solid pulleys, some on luck, some because the belt drive absorbs some shock, some because the other components are very robust, you said yourself you didn't want to cause problems with this car. It's an unproven engine. If it's like the renesis and everyone gets a free engine two years down the road, but you don't because you did a crank pully would you be happy?
If you want to mess with things, buy something that won't hurt the car, sways, shocks, springs, wheels etc. The car will still be slow and unresponsive with the crank pulley, and you'll be out a few hundred dollars and your warranty will be void. In the end it's your car and it's up to you, but seriously remember why you got it in the first place.
Old Aug 3, 2007, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Blacksheepdj
.................
If you want to mess with things, buy something that won't hurt the car, sways, shocks, springs, wheels etc. The car will still be slow and unresponsive with the crank pulley, and you'll be out a few hundred dollars and your warranty will be void. In the end it's your car and it's up to you, but seriously remember why you got it in the first place..............
Best quote I have ever heard. Honestly I like buying intakes and exhausts for personal reasons, but unless you are racing your car I dont see why people spend the cash for things like cams, pulleys, UD, all that. The amount of power it adds completly outweighs what you are sacrificing to run it.

I wanted to get the pulley and stuff but am now starting to think about the fact that I need to drive it everyday.

I like the idea of a turbo kit at 160,001 KM. haha
Old Aug 3, 2007, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by the_cosworth
I like the idea of a turbo kit at 160,001 KM. haha
Me too. But at the same time, I also don't want to blow the motor or tranny when I have to pay for the repair.

Maybe a turbo kit after I've made the last car payment.
Old Aug 3, 2007, 05:09 PM
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forget the pulley, hello intake
Old Aug 4, 2007, 02:10 AM
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I totally agree with blacksheepdj.

The crank harmonic balancer is used to balance each shock the crank receives each "spark"

With out that....as I have been taught on 16 litre diesel engines, your crank could split in two....and even if it doesn't, the stress it puts through the crank is enormous.

Big diesels (16+ L) use a viscous dampener, not rubber like small cars....so the more force you put on your engine, the more you need to damper the stress load on your crank, bottom line.

I learned way too much about this in my dealership courses to not ignore a leaking viscous dampener or cracked rubber on an auto application.

DON'T BUY A CRANK PULLEY UNLESS YOU WANT YOU ENGINE TO END UP SHORT WITH NO WARRANTY.

PS ----- Dont think putting your old pulley on will work.... they can tell.

Last edited by CamShaft; Aug 4, 2007 at 02:11 AM. Reason: spelling mistakes
Old Aug 4, 2007, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by 08Icelancer
hmmm that almost makes me want to consider takin my crank pulley off and put the stock one back on
Yea, I got mine installed 2 days ago....now with all the information we are garthering here, I started to think the pulley was a bad idea, especially on a new engine. May be RRM can come in and explains a little more?


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