keepseln

Ok Guys, I’m new here and I really appreciate all the work/advise you guys put in. Now settle in because I have a doozy of a head scratcher.

2003 Mitsubishi Lancer ES with 2005 motor: cranks, good compression on all cylinders, good fuel pressure, good spark – NO START – won’t run on starting fluid in fact back-fired through the intake. Timing right? Well I’ve preformed tests on both the crankshaft and camshaft sensors. PASSED (are the linked tests valid? Can I get a false positive?) Also, I swapped the cam sensor with a new one and still no joy.

So to recap I installed the motor 2 months ago the car has been running fine. Then it died at a red light and now here I am. If this was an old V8 I would loosen the distributor and adjust it until the motor came to life, but that’s not an option.

Thank you guys for any thoughts you may have on this, I’m stumped.

-JB
Crankshaft Test
Camshaft Test

mcgarvey

Check these three things, should take twenty minutes tops.

Getting injection pulse (Need constant power to one wire at each injector, with ground pulsed by ECM to actuate injector)? Wires/coils/coil connectors in the right spot (google image search a picture of a 4g94)? Pull upper timing cover back, set cam mark and see where crank pulley mark falls?

You need spark (at the correct time), fuel pressure and injection pulse, proper valve timing, and compression on all cylinders. If you have these, the engine WILL RUN. One of these is missing, figure out which. Not sure what you mean by cam and crank sensor tests, the real test is to check the timing marks. It's either in time or it isn't. By what you're describing it sounds like the coils/wires are plugged in wrong, or the timing belt is off several teeth.

Remember, there are lots of things that can make an engine run POORLY. There are only a handful that will prevent it from running at all. Start with the basics.

keepseln

Happy Thanksgiving!

Thanks for the info. I will check the injector pulse and timing marks. The tests I mentioned (and linked) are to ensure that both the cam and crank sensors are sending a pulse. So I hooked my volt meter to them and turned the engine by hand and the meter would alternate between 0 and 5 v. Telling me those two sensors are working properly.

The only conclusion I can come to is that if the injectors check out then the timing belt must have slipped or either the crank or cam sensor are bad.

Again, Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for the input.
-JB

keepseln

Ok, here's the update.

I've check the injectors with a test light they seem to be getting a pulse. I've pulled the upper timing belt cover and set the cam timing mark but I'm not sure what to look for on the crank pulley. Another question, if the belt jumped several teeth would it show some sign?

So if you could describe the crank pulley mark that would be awesome.

-JB

mcgarvey

There is a notch on the crank pulley, along the innermost rib. It should line up with a mark on the timing cover that says "T" or "0". It is visible from up top with a flashlight. If the notch on the pulley isnt obvious with the cam mark aligned, it sounds like your timing is likely way off and you may have already bent valves...

keepseln

Thanks for the response. I will check it out later today. Is there a particular belt/pump kit that you guys prefer?

-JB

jimbo74

Is it possible your timing belt just straight broke?

keepseln

No it isn't broken. In fact it looks like a new belt. Having said that, it seems to have more play than I would think it should. So my current theory is that the tensioner is weak and it allowed the belt to jump a couple of teeth.

Fell free to tell me my thinking on this is off. This is my first timing belt.

-JB

mcgarvey

The tensioner isnt "weak", it gets locked in place with the center bolt and remains static after initial installation.

keepseln

I'm guessing that I shouldn't be able to just pull the belt off the cam gear with my bare hands? I spent a few minutes on the car over the weekend and the timing marks were off by at least 1 tooth. then I decided to see how far I could move the belt off the cam gear and with little effort it slid off. Obviously I'm installing a new belt and water pump next weekend. I just thought I would ask about the tension on the belt. It seemed loose to me.

mcgarvey

Oh I doubt that the belt had insufficient tension. It's just that the tension is manually set when it's installed, and the tensioner thereafter acts as a fixed idler pulley. The tensioner can't get "weak," a loose belt can only be caused by installation error.

02modlanceroz

iTrader: (2)

You shouldn't be able to easily have slid the belt off. Sounds like whomever installed the belt, didn't properly set the tension on the belt. All you have to do to set tension is, loose the tensioner bolt 1/4-1/2 turn, rotate the motor clockwise 2 full revolutions. Tighten the tensioner bolt and recheck timing marks. If you're reusing the belt, make sure you mark the direction with an arrow. You must install it so the belt travels in the same direction as it did before you took it off. When checking the timing mark on the camshaft, it's so much easier to use a straight edge since the mark is on an angle. I used the back side of a razor blade when I did mine. Visually it looked like I was in time, but with a straight edge I knew I was off a tooth. Just make sure to check that it didn't move once you apply tension to the belt

keepseln

Thank you for the reply. The belt literally slid off the cam sprocket with little effort. Sunday we took everything apart, reinstalled the belt but couldn't seem to get the timing set right. My current plan is to just install a new belt and water pump and know it's done right. Not to mention I didn't not the direction of the belt when I took it off.

The advise about the straight edge is awesome. Here is another question. Do I have to make sure the motor is on the compression stroke? Or as long as the marks are lined up (and stay that way after two turns) is that enough?

These forums are the ultimate help line for the DIY'ers of the world, Thank you again.

kaj

iTrader: (60)

as long as all marks are lined up when you put the belt on, you are good to go. it will automatically be at TDC.

i'm not familiar with lancers, but if there is an oil pump balance shaft, make sure it's not 180 degrees out. on the 4g63 it's possible. i don't even know if you have them LOL.
the rear balance shaft will need to be lined up too (if you have one). it will have marks to line up as well.

it's pretty simple, actually. and even easier since you have a mechanical tensioner.

good luck, man. i know it's frustrating.

by chance, do you smell a lot of fuel? it's random, but when the coolant temp sensor goes bad, it will usually flood the car so much it won't start. the car will just stop running.

02modlanceroz

iTrader: (2)

I do know in the manual it states to be in TDC in the compression stroke. It also states to rotate everything clockwise to line them up. You're typically better off if you can line up the marks before removing the belt. But in your case, I would set it to TDC on the compression stroke so you know for sure. It says you only need 2 rotations clockwise to set the tension. I believe that's all I did. You should be able to clearly tell the difference in tension after you're done. Just don't forget to retighten the tensioner. Well you're in there, I would also replace tensioner and pump just because they aren't very expensive