I've been reading all the threads there are on the MAF swap to a 501 or a 609 MAF. Yet after reading so many pages I still don't know how to go about getting started on this mod . It would be one of the best mods you could do to your car. I think Rhyzin has gone from 100 whp to about 130 whp with basic bolt-ons and the MAF Swap.

How many people have done this mod, I know bahamut and rhyzin have done it, has any one else done it yet?

Could someone do a How to/Installation on this?
(Including the SAFC and all other components included with setup)

Please...

Thanks Guys

 

i was also interested in doing a bigger maf...but am also stuck with the same questions a viciouz....what exactly is needed

 

help help help plz...

 

what would happen if u just took off the restrictor plate off the stock maf sensor?

 

too much airflow i think.. but plz someone help me... rhyzin or bahamut... u've done it to your cars... now show the world plz

 

since as of late, i've been pretty lazy working with the MAS. but hey, i got it working. in the dyno sheet thread, you can see that i made just as much power as a lancer with RRM PB and AEM CAI. for comparison, i have RPW 4-1 headers, upgraded fuel pump, rising rate FPR, apexi safc, RRM axleback muffler, and short ram intake. I also don't have a wideband O2 sensor to set my fuel maps correctly. I only tagged 116whp. there could be a lot more to be had across the powerband with tuning by wideband, custom CAI (cuz the AEM doesn't work with the larger MAS) and timing control. there's still more my lazy *** need to research, but the rise in police presence around here late at nite is slowing things down.

first some info on the MAS:
the MAS' in question are all karmann-vortex type sensors. the "small plug" MAS of our generation of mitsus come in 3 flavors. they're designated by the big numbers on the top of the sensor. the 605(4G94 lancer), 501(4G64/6G72 eclipse), 399(4G63 EVO). they use the same wiring harness, the same housing, and (I personally think) the same sensor. what is different is the restrictor plate. the 605 has a rectangular type opening, the 501 has a 2.75-3" round opening, and i believe the 399 has no restrictor plate(haven't seen one off a car yet). i came to the conclusion of the 399 because the older 2G eclipse(609 "wide plug") didn't have a restrictor plate. it wouldn't make sense either. aside from the difference between the MAS, the ECU in the car for which they're used for factor in the difference in design when fuel/ignition maps are programmed. so no "hot swapping."

the difference in the restrictor plates change the flow characteristic of the incoming air. i'll use air flowing through different size pipes as an example. as air flows through a smaller pipe, air will flow faster at low rpm, but will become restrictive at higher rpm as the air needed to make power can't flow in volume enough. this will give the characteristic of having good low end torque. with a much larger diameter pipe, the engine can't suck in enough air at low rpm because air will be travelling slower, causing bad torque down low. but when you get to higher rpm, the engine won't have much problems sucking in the air it wants to make more hp up top.

this change of both volume of air and it's velocity is why you'll need an AF controller when swapping MAS. less air down low, less fuel you'll need, and vice versa.

so back on topic. the basics of what you need to get a larger MAS working (i recommend) is a higher flow rate fuel pump, either an adjustable fuel pressure regulator or larger injectors, and some type of fuel control(emanage, safc, safr). you'll also need some way of monitoring the AF ratio.

when i first started, i built my own that used a numeric readout that was accurate to .01volts(oxygen sensor readings are in volts from 0-1v). blinky lights suck and are usually the 20 light kind. that makes each light .05v. if you've seen my thread on the difference between wideband and narrowband O2 sensors, .90v and .95v is a large difference in the AF ratio range. what i do recommend to monitor AF ratio is a OBD2 scan device. the one i use is in my sig. its much better knowing what your ECU sees rather than some device you spliced in.

here's my setup and my "how to" is based only on my own setup and experience. i'm not responsible for what you do to your own car.

Apex'i S-AFC
fuel pressure regulator @ 46psi (car will go lean at higher rpm in 4th gear if set lower)
501 MAS (3G eclipse)
stock injectors
'96 eclipse GSX fuel pump (120lph)
Auterra OBD2 scantool/dynamometer (to read AF ratio)

so here's the deal. hook up your fuel upgrades: fuel pump and FPR/injectors. splice your safc in. plug your larger MAS in. i have the apexi safc, so i'll be talking about tuning with it. after you start up the car, you'll want to get your base idle/LO settings done. go to 1k rpm on the safc and add fuel until the AF gauge fluctuate between 0v and AT LEAST .80v. you may want to shoot for .90v. once you've got that set, rev to 2k and set your 2k setting the same way: until it fluctuates between 0-.80v. keep doing that for each of your rpm points. mine are 1k, 2k, 3k, 4k, 4.5k, 5k. 5.5k, and 6k.

NOW you gotta go drive out(preferrably in 3rd gear and up) and confirm your settings. i used 2nd gear for 2k and 3k. get someone to go out with you to tune the safc so you can keep your eyes on the road. what you wanna do is cruise at each rpm point and make sure it's fluctuating correctly. double, triple check to make sure that these settings are correct. you'll mostly be driving under these settings and condition so making sure they're correct is important.

NOTE: set your LO thottle settings on the SAFC to 15%. this will give you a bit more safe fuel economy.

SKIP THIS PART IF YOU DON'T HAVE A SCANTOOL

if you have a scantool, you can fine tune your LO setting. once the above step is done, you can go out and cruise at each rpm in 4th or 5th while reading Long Term Fuel Trim and tuning to get 0-10%. tuning for 10% gives you the best fuel economy while staying within "safe" ecu parameters. what i did, since i already did the second part of the LO tuning, i just cruised in 5th at 3k rpm and tuned for 6% LTFT. then i made all the rpm points the same value. THEN i did other rpm points after. i did 3k first since that is where i'm usually cruising 5th in so it's more important to myself.

OKAY, BACK TO READING . . .

the target O2 voltage you're shooting for .92-.94v solid. this voltage will not fluctuate up and down like the low setting. you want it between .92-.94v and stay within there. you might get slight dips, but if it's only for a second it's okay as readings from a narrowband is instant instead of gradual readings like the wideband. this is a "safe" voltage until you can get a wideband. if you have a wideband, you'd be shooting for 12.0:1. you'll want to do 3rd or 4th gear pulls for your HI settings. 4th gear pulls are recommended as your transmission will be as close to a 1:1 ratio as it can, but due to high speeds at higher rpm, it gets really dangerous.

chances are you'll be running pig rich in the lower rpms. mine is as low as -27% at the moment, but start out little by little from 0% just to be safe in what ever direction your AF gauge is telling you to go as AF settings are NEVER exactly transferable from car to car. get into 3rd or 4th and floor it ONLY TO THE TARGET RPM YOU'RE TUNING. take things slow as tuning is always something you want to do right the first time.

once you're done with your HI settings, you're pretty much done. if there's any question or anything i missed, i'll re-edit the post above to include if necessary.

NOTES:
i'm looking to whether timing is changed a lot due to SAFC settings. as fuel is subtracted with the SAFC, ignition timing will be advanced. when fuel is added, ignition timing will be retarded. i need to throw my 605 back on and do some ign timing logs to compare. if timing is retarded any, timing control from an emanage or S-ITC to advance timing would yield more power. i only bought the SAFC because i thought i didn't know enough to run an emanage. now the SAFC is holding me back and I will eventually get an emanage.

when making a custom CAI, the MAS should be placed at the end of the piping with a filter adapter and filter. there is only so much piping you can have between the filter and MAS. using the AEM or INJEN CAI will not work as MAS placement in those systems cause problems with intake count. when you first start up the car with an AEM, it might sound fine and drive fine, but once you stop at a light the car will start to sputter. i've tried A LOT of things to make the AEM work with the larger MAS to no avail.

It is best to tune LO/closed loop operation with a scantool. best to tune HI/open loop with a wideband O2. a wideband isn't really needed for a rough tune or if you don't have all the regular bolts ons. will be needed once you want to get past bolt on parts.

Road///Race Engineering SAFC tips:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newafc.htm
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newafcsetting.htm

Fuel pump flow rates:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/f...pflowrates.htm

you can do other searches on the internet about how to tune a SAFC. tuning is pretty much universal, it's just that some cars have different limits.

of course, i welcome any questions, comments, or corrections. even though this is probably the longest i've ever posted, i have a feeling i still haven't really answered the question(it's kinda late). But i'll help out best i can.

 

Cliffnotes please...

 

lol... yeah it's pretty long, eh?

I personally think you should understand fuel injection a bit before jumping into a project like this. this is something you should do after you've gotten all the basic bolt-ons. if you think you can tune in one sitting and you've never done anything like this before, you shouldn't even be considering this. this isn't somethign that just "bolts-on" hp. that said...

what you need:
SAFC or emanage or SAFR or similar
new fuel pump(at least 120lph)
fuel pressure regulator set at 46psi or.... larger injectors(haven't used them myself but can probably calculate a recommended size)
and a larger MAS

i have not tuned an EVO MAS so i dunno what would be required.

Road///Race Engineering tuning tips:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newafc.htm
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newafcsetting.htm

 

Been out for awhile because of finals.

Rhyzin,
You use 15% throttle for your LO setting. That's pretty low. I usually reserved 33% throttle for LO setting. For high, I used 77% throttle, but the range can be 74-78%. It's flexible enough for an early or late jump to WOT. +80% throttle is 1 sec too late on the throttle response; any lower than 74%, you'll fight rich condition at WOT.

Between the LO and HI setting, the AFC averages itself out between the value settings.



rules
1) 3rd gear pulls are a bit safer tuning at WOT. For 4th gear pulls, you'll start hitting higher speed and running out of road room.
a) tune 3K rpm
b) tune 4K rpm
c) tune 5K rpm
2) Tuning by one person sucks hardcore. Get a second person to help, either with or w/o knowledge.
a) You can concentrate on driving while the other person can keep an eye on your O2 values and rpm band.
3) 2nd and low 3rd gear pulls are reserved for tuning 2-4K rpm under a certain percentage of throttle.
4) Try to limit your 1st to 5th gear WOT on the streets. This confirms your HI setting but garners attention from unwarranted people like cops.
5) Every AFC values can vary with mods and envirnoment. Unless you copy 100% of the person's mods, you still have a different envirnomental conditions. Adjust accordingly.

 

this is very true as last weeken me and david found all of this out....i still have to get the values for u david, need to get my camera back from my friend.......also (off topic) i took 3rd place this weekend @ Farm Fest for best Asian Mild WoooooT!

 

Hey Rhyzin,

First I'ld like to say thanks for replying, you too Bahamut.

Second, now some more questions . Is the emanage easier to tune your car with? If I am going to go FI, probably Supercharger, should I even bother with this mod, will ripp need to tune my black box again? What size injectors would I need, if I don't want to use the Fpr (what car could I get them from)? Also will my Road Race Piggyback be enough to tune my car or will I even need to use the Emanage?

Well thats all for now... I'll think of more when it comes to mind

THANKS A BUNCH

 

I haven't messed with EM (find and email dudeinamirage. he's the first person in the US that I know has put and tune it on a 4g9x).

SC. It's really personally preference. To me, no, but I have to respect others' POV.

Injector size . . . find RcEngineering's site and plug some numbers.

It's not really necessary for a FPR, but it's up to the individual again.


Also will my Road Race Piggyback be enough to tune my car or will I even need to use the Emanage?
=================

can't comment on it. I do know it's not setup for a bigger MAF.

 

i tried 15% because that's about the throttle position where i'm cruising at. that guarantees LO map usage and actually fixed a really rich reading at partial throttle. i also gained 10-15 miles more per tank of gas. of course, this setting could be different for someone else. my HI settings are at 80% because, well i dunno i don't street race (only did it once and it was me and a friend by ourselves, i've never been revved on or anything and i don't go out looking for races) and i don't floor it all the time so i really don't test that out much. 80% is the ecu point of open loop ops. i guess i could start trying that out.

if you're going with the SDS system, don't bother with this as they're the only ones to provide a supercharger. no spare parts from anyone else if your supercharger goes. i personally don't know how water/methanol injection affects tuning. i'm sure you can probably tune it yourself if you wanted to though as i still think tuning methods carry over.

i'd say an emange *requires* two people to tune. it's harder to tune as there's more things to input into a laptop whereas an safc is small and only has 7 buttons. i'll be honest. i tuned my safc myself, but only because there are miles of straight lonely road where i live right now. i could never think i would be able to do it in the Bay Area(where i'm from).

www.rceng.com
if my math is right, my fpr @ 46psi equates to 250cc injectors. you might wanna check that.

the ONLY tuning piggyback that at least has a feature to help adjust for a new MAS is the greddy emanage. the RRM piggyback is just a box with -zero- adjustability. i'm very impressed with the RRM piggyback, but bolt-on-and-go is not for me. i like to get my hands dirty. the RRM box will not adjust for a new MAS. you MIGHT be able to hook up the RRM piggyback and another fuel controller, but i do not recommend it at all. only because you're modifying signals to the ECU twice! that leaves open a larger possibility of electrical gremlins. if you want to learn to tune yourself, sell the RRM and pickup an emanage(with the latest flash update) and all the harnesses and a laptop. but if you don't wanna hassle with it, just stick with the RRM.

i think people should really read up on fuel injection before jumping into tuning. www.howstuffworks.com would not be enough. grab a book on bosch fuel injection systems and internal combustion theory and take things nice and slow. learning how to tune correctly is done over a large period of time and is not a "bolt-on" affair.

 

Starting from scratch, how much would a project like that cost?

 

$20 eclipse fuel pump
$40 3G eclipse MAS
$260 RPW FPR (reg FPRs can be had for ~$100+, gotta shop for 'em)
$200 Apexi SAFC II ver 1 (can be had for $100+ since ver 2 came out)
$40 custom made O2 gauge
____
$560 for me, this doesn't include an intake. you can probably do it for $300 at minimum.