well, tb and IM i hear are just for greater throttle response(launches and such). i guess it isn't too important, but i would like to do it anyways for response

 

baha- NA isn't cost effective for more power. Period. If he wants more power for "cheap" he'd get a turbo or SC.

Keep an eye out for a surprise from RPW. . . . . Dave keeps promising a dualt TB setup with completely new intake mani. No hard data yet about anything.

 

well, i'd rather not go SC or TC for many reasons. i kinda want to do the quad TB from RPW, but its somewhat expensive and recquires alot of mods(including fuel). i guess i might have to be happy with just the standard bolt ons and a camshaft

 

EB,

NA is cost effective if you want under 200 crank HP. That's where most people miss the boat. Not everyone is gunning for 300 HP flywheel.

If you go TC or SC and making under 200 HP crank, that's pathetic. I'm not a firm believer in 5 lbs of boost. That's so CONSERVATIVE that like tossing money to anyone.


Besides, tell me who will get more props if a NA Lancer runs toe-to-toe w/ an ITR or loses by a fender length on the track.

Once you go TC or SC, you automatically get tossed to the TC wolves w/ the likes of WRX, SI's w/ TC, GSX's, and Supra's.


GP,

Here's an example of overkill on TB. Amongst SR20DET and few RB2x swaps, nissan owners have went after 85-100mm TB from the USD Q45. You know how big 85-100mm . . . it will swallow EVO's TB with ease. See those guys don't want low end response, they want top end HP. Ask the board's friendly neighborhood tenkawa_akito . . . yes, he posts a lot.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...spagename=WDVW

Here's a 90mm one.

100mm = approx 3.9 inches
hotwire MAF from the C5 vette (LS1) = 3 7/8 = 3.875 inches
hotwire MAF from the GM pony cars = 3 1/2 = 3.5 inches

You only want TB work if you want top end response.

 

baha it's weird, I find myself agreeing with you most of the time and at the same time feel the need to argue with you or defend my positions against your most recent posts.... weird

GP- you don't want the quad TB if you don't think you can handle something as simple as eManage. . . . for quad TB you need to go standalone fuel managment computer.

 

well, i'm not really talking about some hardcore TB's, just the bored one from rrm, possibly a single from RPW(i think they have 'em on special order)

i think now my biggest problem is how to have rrm's piggyback and rpw's stage 1 camshaft working together. if i ditch the piggyback and go emanage, that should take care of the problem i think, but then i'd have to tune myself

 

this is nice to read cause im doing the same thing he is

Im kind of deciding whether or not im gonna go turbo later...which if i do ill go the piggyback route for now. If i did go with the cams id wanna know how difficult it would be to tune emanage on my own.

at the end of august my mods will be: Catbak, sri, headers, hi-flow cat, bored throttle, intake man., possibly some fuel mods if i get more info about it.

Just curious, what do u guys think? Go N/A, or go turbo?

 

this is a great read for me too. I am trying to wring the most i can out of my n/a setup before slapping a turbo on it. My one question is this - can a RPW cam work with a RRM piggyback ??? I want to get a cam but i may have to put that idea on hold if this is not feasable. So i guess it's this........

1. RRM piggy + turbo kit = no cam

- or -

2. RPW cam + engine management sys. = no rrm piggy

am i right in thinking this way ???

 

well im going the opposite way like Rhyzin did...

im gonna get a 2g eclipse gsx fuel pump, and a 3g eclipes MAF, wideband o2 sensor and s-afc to tune, than header/downpipe full exhaust... haha. it will be fun

 

what do u plan to get hp and tq wise out of that setup?

 

this is frustrating to read as i am a little ahead of this curve lol. the fuel mods people are talking about are rediculous. you will not need bigger injectors until your near 200 hp. until then stock injectors and fuel rail are fine. i am not saying that bigger injectors would hurt you but they are not REQUIRED. i have a stage 2 cam from rpw and an safc-2 my car is running great. in lue of getting bigger injectors get a fuel pressure regulator (fpr). using that will essentially give the same effect.

i am planning on doing a duel tb setup on my car. if your honestly ever planning on this or anything like it i suggest on just getting a stand alone computer to begin with. a haltec or even the aem one. it will just save you money in the end. when my car is done it WILL BE a duel tb turbo'd beast!! lol. thats my dream anyway. basically dude get the following with only a fpr upgrade.

- intake & exhaust, FULL Systems not just a cat back or cone filter i am talking bored tb, intake manifold, header, downpipe etc.
- cam, stage 1, 1.5, 2 ; get the cam gear no matter what. i made this mistake

now if you go on to do a quad tb setup then you will need the larger injectors.

 

Green... i think your doing fine. If you want to stay NA just stick the way you are going. The RRM piggy would need to be customed tuned but would only take a day and be about 100 bucks. Since your not local though it isn't feasible. Get the emanage w/timing harnes. That way you can play with timing and fuel. Get the cam gear installed along with the best cam you can get for NA... believe that's stage 1.5 as stage 2 i don't think will pass most inspections/smog state laws. I don't know if you have them...

Hardcore is from a state where you can basically do anything you want to a car so if Kansas is like that then get the Stage 2. On that cam i'd recommend setting cam timing to about 2-4 degrees advance. Then i recommend you advance ignition 1-2 degrees around your peak torque and about 3-5 degrees on your peak hp. Tuned to run on 93 octane at a 13:1-13.2:1 AFR you'll be set. I've seen the exact setup on a car basically tuned with the emanage dyno at over 135whp and 140wtq. Not much but quite good for an NA setup i believe. With the timing advanced you should yield more.

You may have to upgrade to a better fuel pump but that is iffy. If anything get a cheap GSX fuel pump and install it in about 10 minutes. It isn't hard and there is a nice writeup on the boards about it by airlinevomitbag i believe.

Get the TB as it will help increase you mid and high torque curves. Also the intake manifold will assist here as well as give your throttle response a nice smooth feeling. Once you've reached this platue let me know as there is more you can do. The next stage will require some serious tuning on the emanage though so be prepaired. Also there is a company that i know of which sells MAS signal converters so that you can upgrade your MAS for better flow. Trust me the stock mas is a restrictor so these converters help you open that up a lot. Good luck and feel free to pm me if you'd like.

 

http://www.mohdparts.com/emanage/EmanageFAQ.txt

A little FAQ by Rx7 guys on EM. At least, it should help your learning curve a bit. If you don't understand what's he's saying and doing, don't go that route. If you want to learn w/ trial and error, go ahead w/ the NA project. If you go TC route, DO NOT do the trial and error method. Things will be toasting.



http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET
When in doubt, use RCengineering injector flow chart

Plug 38 psi for stock fuel psi
Plug .8 for 80% injectors duty cycle
.4 for NA BSFC or .60 to .65 BSFC for TC

The rest is self explanatory.

Also, don't plug 100 fuel psi . . . stock fuel line does even go up that high, and injectors can't be forced open that much. If you have a beef on the math, don't blame me. Take it up with RCengineering.


https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ighlight=210cc
Here are some NA injector math using RCengineering.

 

i am from indiana and they dont have laws like that here, its GLORIOUS lol

hey boe, i have my car stup basically as you described it and i run better on 91 octane for some reason. i tried using 89 and its fine so then i was like lets c 93 and its fine so one day i was bored and just put 91 in and the car ran better, i tested this theory at the track and it did .1 seconds better in the 1/4 so i am happy. i found that funny. my expirament wasn't a good science but hey what ya gonna do....

 

when your on the brink of detonating/high heat ranges the cars will seem to scream compared to a safe run... thus id say the 91 is putting you right on that zone. I wouldn't want to be there. Rather use the 93 and add a bit more timing. For .1sec you can drop some weight out of the car... stick a little better at the launch... turn a fast song on the radio... etc. That isn't significant enough to really tell. I'd play it safe and use the 93 then tune it a bit better. Thus far i've found about 4degrees advanced on stage 2 cams with about 8 degrees timing added to 3k 80-100% TPS, tappering to 3degrees by peak torque and jumping back to 5degrees by redline works out the best. First get your fuel in line. I usually tune the NA to around 13-13.2:1 at WOT. If you have the emanage i can get you a map. Then you can see where i did the timing and play from there. Just keep your ears open for pinging or audible knock while tuning.