i'm looking to push my oz as far as it can go, but i'm not too keen on doing any fuel mods(ie pump, fpr, etc). i guess i'm just not too comfortable installing that stuff, plus doesn't it use more fuel over stock? or am i mixed up?

anyways, just wondering how far i can go without that stuff. that knocks out the quad throttle body, and rpw stage 2 cams and higher. i'm planning on going stage 1 cam shaft, tb and intake manifold, and piggyback. but beyond that, i'm not sure.

thanks

 

How deep are your pockets?

 

well, not very right now, but i'm talking about doing this work over a year or so. i guess don't worry about the money, if its worth it, i can get enough money. besides, i thought it would be a bit cheaper, as i'm cutting out an emanage type unit, along with alot of other stuff that i mentioned

 

well .. you can do:

header
downpipe
test pipe
catback exhaust
intake (cai or sri)
throttle body
intake manifold
stage 1 cams
stage 1 cam gear
rrm PB ecu (im not sure if this will work with the cams? i think rock or boe said that w/pb ecu and cams you need a custom tune)
ported and polished head
rods
pistons

you should be ~130 hp with that i believe ... but quite honestly, for the $ you will spend on ALL of those NA mods .. looking at a non-IC turbo is about the same cost if not less and will get you quicker, faster and cheaper. just a thought heh

personally, I wish i had left my car stock (minus exhaust ) and had started saving for forced induction ... errr

 

well, i have catback and intake, and header/downpipe are in the mail. are the rods and pistons even necessary if i'm not forcign induction, increasing fuel or any of that?

thanks for the help so far and keep it coming. i need to decide on my upgrade path before i buy parts that will need replacing if i do go tc/sc

 

bump for knowledge

 

if you want to stay n/a then your going to need more fuel sooner or later. Besides it will increase your bolt on hp as well. No one is happy with their car.....your always going to want something more and fuel mods are necessary to crave that.

 

well, am i correct when i say that most if not all fuel mods will increase gas consumption, decreasing mpg?

 

negative... depends on what your doing either way u look at it more HP = more gas being dumped into the cylinders but depending on what you get it may all go together well giving you nearly the same gas milage you have right now. as opposed to FI where u eat gas like water

 

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm#WORKSHEET

W/ 240cc injectors, you are maxed out about 152 BHP at the crank. If people want to dispute this, take it up w/ RCengineering and their staff. Also, it's pretty much on par w/ the modern galant/3g eclipse 4g64.

W/ 210cc injectors for the Mirage G93, they are maxed out at 133 BHP. From experience, I didn't come close to those max #'s, but the injectors were straining to dump fuel beyond 5.5K rpm.

Air and fuel mods can be regulated for better MPG. If you do the typical honda slap-on parts, you won't gain any MPG. W/ tuning, you'll gain MPG.

As for the Turbo comment, it's not easy as it claim to be. You'll have to factor tuning. For MOST indivduals, they are ill-tuners and will blow up their car within a year.

 

ok, well, i'm not tuner and i'm sure my skills with an emanage type device suck too; but mpg potentially could be the same with larger injectors, fuel pump, and afr/fpr? is there a good link or thread on fuel discussions?

 

Well U9V was saying he was getting close to 40MPG with just his cam, then he started to do fuel management to get the most ponies out of the mod and only went down to 25MPG with an approximated 40WHP gain.

The consensus is that RRM would need your car for an untold length of time to do a custom tune for your new cam profile.

Higher compression pistons will yield more horsepower, and you might as well replace the rods while you're at it.... oh and stronger head studs would be a good investment.

Fuel pressure regulator will come in handy until you need to upgrade to much larger injectors.... the throttle bodies that will fit in the stock plenum chamber will yield very small results, but should give a few HP and definitely increased throttle response... porting the intake mani will also yield some throttle response, but probably little in the way of power (this is supposed to be very easy to do with a minimal tool investment- you just need to be careful)

Headers are a good idea, although RRM says they noticed negligible gaines from a downpipe, I can't see it hurting if you're keeping the stock cat in place (which you'll want to do if you're staying NA). Save that money you'd planned to spend on an exhaust system because NA setups don't like to be "wide open" like the turbo setups do.....

"port and polish" well there's no REAL data on these yet, although most estimate for an NA p&p are saying about 2HP and a fistful of cash. There's a fairly recent thread on that topic that went nowhere fast. P&P is basically the absolute last thing you want to do after you've done everything else- including weight reduction (who needs a spare tire at the track?), pulleys, routed around the power steering and AC compressor belts (actually, removing them would be part of the weight reduction process) and all that other stuff.

Ok, I'm done typing for now. . . . . I'm going to stay NA because I don't want to get bumped up too far in my AutoCross indexing, so I'm intrested to hear what other people think about this stuff.....

 

PnP is only good if you have cam work to take advantage of the higher powerband.

 

uh oh, that doesn't sound good. so basically, i would either have to tune it myself or decide between the camshaft or the piggyback? i guess i would go with the camshaft so i dont back myself into a corner and down the road i could possibly tune it myself. what do you guys think?

 

If you need help in tuning, you can find some local DSM'ers in your area. Yes, some or most of them are arrogant and won't help at all. You just have to try to weed them out.

http://www.dsm.org/regionals/regionals.epl

Personally, I don't think the TB and intake mani are cost effective in getting more power. Those are better for TC app.